Can we muzzle all dogs in public yet (warning, graphic image of mauled hand)

[lfYouLikePinaCoIadas]

“Whilst out walking a route that Tom has been on numerous times, he was the victim of an unprovoked attack by an unleashed dog. The dog attacked Tom multiple times as he tried to protect his puppy from being mauled by the dog and was left with horrific injuries. What is more horrifying, however, is that the owners of the dog didn’t try to help and fled the scene leaving Tom bleeding from his artery on his wrist.

Wife Katy recalls the moment that she opened the door to find her husband standing there after the attack: ‘‘Tom managed to get home where I had to tourniquet, to try to stem the bleeding, while waiting for 999. He lost several litres of blood in the short time until the ambulance arrived. Our two children were at home at the time and were woken up by the commotion. My 7-year-old was terrified and thought that her dad was doing to die from the blood loss.’’

https://www.familiesonline.co.uk/news/dad-of-2-viciously-mauled-by-dog-trying-to-protect-family-puppy

Imagine it had been a child’s face, or neck, or little body, instead of an adult’s hand.

Absolutely sick of nothing being done to protect the public.

YABU - dogs are man’s best friend
YANBU - something needs to be done

Unfortunately.

But something needs doing.

A license for breeders, all dogs must be bought from licensed breeders.
All people must have a license, all dogs must be chipped etc

Make it very costly, which would on turn fund the people to police it.

So on and so forth.

But it would be near impossible and would need massive social changes that people would be unwilling to go through.

The other alternative is to make punishments for any dog injuries triple what they are and lead to hefty jail times for irresponsible owners.
But I doubt that's be popular cause some ones granny's Pug nipped a kid that pulled it's ear and now she's facing 5-10 in wormwood etc

Dogs adored my DM. There was someone who lived along the road from my mum who had a Groenendael. DM stopped to make a fuss of it once, thereafter, every time she left the house, the Groeny would ask to be let out in the front garden, so it could say hello to her.

After DM died, when I was clearing out her house, it did it when I walked past, too. We think it must have been able to hear the sound of her front door opening or something. I wondered if it did the same to the people who moved in afterwards.

Dogs are very good at identifying sounds. Mine could tell a few friends' cars by the sound.

When I had my dogs, it only cost a few pounds to have 3rd party liability cover for anything caused by the dogs added to my house and contents policy. I don't know why everyone doesn't do that, tbh.

My aunt got a big bill when her boxer escaped and ran into the road, got hit by a taxi, and damaged it. The boxer only had a small cut on his leg, the taxi came off worse! It cost my aunt £200+, which was a lot of money in the 1950s.

"But a smaller dog isn’t as likely to kill you or do as extensive damage as a larger dog, especially ones of certain breeds."

True and people shouldn't make a fuss about their kids getting maimed or scarred as long as they are still alive.

"The idea that our placid, sweet and well-trained small terrier needs to be muzzled in public is laughable. And not enforceable"

It's not funny and of course it's enforcable. The first time one of your fellow owners got a prison sentence you'd get the hang of it.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/09/baby-died-bitten-jack-russell

And someone remind me what those small dogs were bred for and what they are good at.

I really don't understand the argument that because bad dog owners wouldn't have their dogs on leads/get dog licenses that we shouldn't have the law at all.

Couldn't you say the same about literally every single law? Should we not have driving licenses in case some people drive without them anyway? No point having any laws against murder either then I suppose, as decent, responsible people don't commit murder anyway 👍

Cringeing at all the people thinking they are being clever, with all this, let’s muzzle men, let’s ban wood! 🙄

Most dog ownership is a lifestyle choice. And there are too many shit owners.

Yesterday I went to two cafes and the experience was spoilt by dogs wandering off-lead. It’s gross.

They need to somehow enforce leads. And ban the phrase, ‘oh he’s just being friendly!). Ugh.

Muzzles seem a bit cruel. We just need fewer dogs in this country and better behaviour from owners. Won’t ever happen though.

Dogs need to run around. If they are deprived of exercise, behavioural problems will be so much worse. I agree with the idea of a fee, a licence and mandatory training courses, but keeping dogs on leads at all times is cruel, not to mention muzzled. As someone pointed out above, men are much more violent than dogs as a group - should we be keeping them on leads? Obviously not. Collective punishment is not reasonable.

Well mine was bred to be a lapdog to keep the noble people warm before central heating and also to alert them to intruders in their castles. Bella's pretty good at both those tasks and whilst she will bark if someone knocks at the door she goes out of the hall on command before I open it and only greets people with permission if I let them in.

I used to think people over reacted about dogs. That most dogs were fine and anyone who got uptight about off-lead dogs was just over-sensitive. But that was because I'd always had soppy, trainable, biddable and friendly dogs.

Then I got this dog. She's reactive, jumpy and will turn and attack other dogs. She's fine with people, but small animals (and smaller dogs) she will attempt to corner and attack. She chases anything that moves.

She is ALWAYS on the lead when there are people, other dogs or other animals about. Luckily we live very rurally and there are lots of empty fields and tracks we can go down with her offlead, but she has to come and go back on her lead if anyone appears on the horizon (luckily her recall is pretty good).

So I have sympathy for both sides. Yes, most dogs are fine and wouldn't dream of biting or attacking. But those that aren't (and you really really can't tell, because even an otherwise mild old gent of a dog can bite hard if he feels threatened) need to be managed, watched and restrained.

I'm not a fan of muzzles though. It might stop actual biting, but it won't stop chasing, jumping and other anti social behaviour, and gives a false sense of security (a dog's claws can do a lot of damage, never mind the teeth).

You are one of the many precious dog owners in denial.

Many people like me are not scared of dogs. But we hate their slobbering mouths nuzzling our clothes and bags. Why not keep your dog to yourself?

Actually MN has shown me that there are experienced, responsible and decent owners around. Who don’t assume everyone wants to be near their dog and act accordingly. Your posts show that you are not one of them. Deluded indeed.

There are lots of companion breeds that were bred to be good with people - pugs, papillons, cavaliers, to name a few.

We really really need to stop using media as our gospel fir our opinions and points of views.

Dog maulings are awful and very destressing. Yes they are in the increase. However, these remain thankfully a rare event in account of the million of dogs out in the public every day. We and our children are much more likely to be injured or dead from the aggressive or neglectful actions of other human beings.

Expecting the million harmless dogs in the UK to be muzzled on account of the handfuls or so of severe accidents per year is totally ludicrous.

Just to add in some more experiences I do think something needs to happen, but muzzles aren’t the answer.

Ive been attacked by two dogs, a JRT and border collie.
I own an XL breed (rottweiler) and we never go off lead. The border collie was off lead, went for my dog’s throat and now she’s terrified of dogs.
The JRT was on a long lead, was friendly and hadn’t bitten before (or since). The bite went right through my hand so it did need medical attention. It’s all so circumstantial it’s going to be really hard to police.

In these instances the “big” dog wasn’t the problem and a muzzle would have helped avoid our injuries. But I still don’t believe that the people who need muzzles would obey any laws put in place, especially if they won’t even use leads. Also my dog would’ve been left defenceless if she was forced to wear a muzzle for no reason.

It would punish the good owners and make no difference to the bad ones. I genuinely don’t know what the solution is though.

I am happy to ignore all dogs for the rest of my life. Why then do they come up to me and nuzzle my skirt in a cafe queue? Why do they run across my picnic ruining it? Grab my tennis ball in their slobbery mouth and run off with it? Jump up at me when I enter a furniture shop? Bite my son playing football with his friends to try and get the ball from his hands?

Owners like you need to stop the denial and accept that not everyone loves their doggy. I never let my young kids approach others, so why do bad dog owners let their hounds approach strangers?

I can’t ignore a dog that won’t leave me alone.

Your denial epitomises the selfish entitlement of poor dog-owners everywhere and gets the good ones a bad name.

‘We and our children are much more likely to be injured or dead from the aggressive or neglectful actions of other human beings.’

So??? Re your pointless whataboutery, we cannot legislate for the number of adults here (other than reduce immigration if that’s your bag) and there are laws around assault and murder. But we can reduce the number of dogs being owned by shit-owners and/or make the owners behave better by introducing more laws.

No, my soft as butter Labrador with perfect recall does not need a muzzle! There does need to be far, far better controls on dangerous dog ownership though and a ban on American Bulldogs.

In Spain, dogs over a certain weight have to be muzzled and on a lead in public. Heavy fines are imposed on those not complying.

There are just too many irresponsible dog owners out there. Ive witnessed several incidents in the past year of dogs not being kept under control- a small terrier attacking a horse, causing the horse to buck and rider to fall-owners couldn’t of cared less!
A man on my street regularly walks his dog without a lead. It chases anything it sees and runs into other peoples properties. It chased my neighbours elderly cat..fortunately the cat fought back. The guy just shrugged it off- he’s a total bellend.

I wouldn't mind actually. I walk both mine on leads, have space for them to run at home and hire an enclosed dog field if I want them to go off lead out and about. One is a dog reactive rescue. Who has never bitten but i cant say never would land I walk him in a muzzle anyway.. its well fitted, he can pant, drink and eat small treats in it, we accustomed him to it slowly. I know 100% I have done everything I can to ensure my dog is safe to others. I also train them to ignore other people unless invited to approach. If its my right to own a dog thsn it's other people's right to have nothing to do with my dog if they don't want too.. and it's my responsibility to ensure nothing gets hurt. He is how he is due to previous poor handling... its not his fault but its not the fault of random strangers or dogs either.

I would far rather every dog was this safe. And if I needed to muzzle my other non reactive dog to ensure this than so be it 🤷‍♀️

@VincentVaguer we haven't been unlucky. There are too many dog owners who don't think that their dog jumping up at someone is a bad thing. It is. It shouldn't happen. Stop it happening and if you can't, keep your dog on a lead.

The greyhound incident could have ended horrifically both for my daughter and the dog. That is a consequence of the owner having failed to research the sort of issues rescue greyhounds can have. But that would be irrelevant if the dog had managed to bite my daughters face as it would inevitably have been put to sleep.

Personally, I don't think we shouldn't have them, but I do recognise that in order for them to work, they need to be consistently policed.
We already have the microchip law and there are by laws in my area at least about dogs being on leads in certain places - totally ignored because there's no policing of them, no concequences even when it's blatant.
I think that's what people are saying, that owners who are already responsible and lead their dogs when appropriate, train them, pick up after them, keep them under control and have secure gardens etc would do this, but those dogs are very rarely the issue, it's the ones who ignore the already existing laws anyway, and aren't policed on it who will ignore any further laws unless they are actively policed, because they're ignoring the ones we already have - so by and large you'll have a load of dogs that are very low risk of causing a problem muzzled, licenced, chipped and on leads while the dogs that are actually the issue - status dogs, those who's owners don't understand dog behaviour and don't care to, those who would rather be nose in phone than controlling their dogs, will continue to do what they like. So it won't solve the problems.

I genuinely think if we started with actual enforcement of the laws we already have and punishment for that - dog chipped and the details registered to the correct address/name, on lead in designated areas (yes, even if you have good recall), wearing a collar and that collar to have the correct contact details for the dog then things would improve as a start, and not just fines either, but enforced training (a bit like speed awareness courses) and the dog removed for certain offences, and an offence of a dog that attacks another animal while out of control - none of that would help in this situation with the puppy being attacked and the man getting injured and then the other dog owner clearing off, but if you thought you were likely to be stopped and questioned, and have all your credentials checked for having a dog off lead, and it was actually policed, it might have made that person keep that dog under better control in the first place.
We need to police the laws we already have, not create more that will just not be policed and therefore ignored too.

You sound amazing. I wish all owners spoke like this and acted like this.

Thanks most for this: ‘ If its my right to own a dog then it's other people's right to have nothing to do with my dog if they don't want too’

The only reason I'd keep my dog on a lead is so they don't have to meet people who don't like dogs. It's not fair to them to have to interact with miserable people and people who can't tell the difference between a snarling attack dog and a friendly sort. Luckily I never usually meet people like this so my dogs can live out their days believing that all humans are friendly.

What a lovely reply.

So people that dislike dogs are miserable...

How about people that dislike snakes? Spiders? Lizards? Ferrets? Birds?
Are they all miserable too?

Or is it just you that is the judge?

Some people do t like dogs. Get over it. It doesn't mean they're miserable. It likely means they've had an experience with a shit owner at some point.

Any owner that allows their off lead dog to approach strangers is a shit owner.
Any owner that thinks their dog is friendly so people should just accept it, is a shit owner.
Any owner that has so little intelligence to realise all dogs, even theirs, has the capacity to attack, is a shit owner.

Shot owners shouldn't have dogs.