To be utterly dumbfounded

[Swansandcustard]

DD17 is currently almost 1 year into A Levels at 6th form. She’s doing Classics, Ancient History and Sociology, with a view to go into either Archeology or Anthropology etc.

Yesterday the Classics/Ancient Rome teacher informed them they had basically been headhunted by the local private school, who were offering a lot more money and would fund their masters.

This teacher is the only non-private one of these subjects in our county. It’s very hard to recruit to, they’ve said they might put an English teacher in as substitute. The class is moving onto the Aeneid in the Autumn and they’ve been told they might have to teach themselves it. The departing teacher is leaving her material on Teams ‘in case of the worst’.

So, potentially 2 of DD’s 3 A Levels are fucked. Classics is acknowledged to be one of the most difficult A Levels as it is.

It’s horrific that the state school system is so unwelcoming to teachers that this kind of thing can go on. As annoyed as I am, I don’t blame the teacher. Why wouldn’t they take the offer?!

The issue is the fact that money trumps everything, every time, and more and more, if you can’t go private you just don’t get a look in. This is the diametric opposite of ‘levelling up’.

This, sadly, is modern Britain. Blame the Tories. It’s disgusting and nothing new for them. In fact, it’s deliberate.

Do you mean Classical Civilisation? If so it’s not considered a particularly difficult A level. Latin and Greek yes but Class Civ is relatively straightforward.

It's good that you don't blame the teacher, OP. The truth is that the school couldn't really have done anything about this except refuse to run the course in the first place. And why would they have done that when they had a teacher? It's true that there are massive teacher shortages across the board due to the state of schools atm, but I imagine that Classics is always hard to find teachers for in the state schools that offer it.

How awful for your DD. The worst part of the problem could be that DD has very little choice but to self-study.
She will need grades from 3 A levels for university, and if she cannot continue with one of her existing 3, it may be too late to take up a new subject, and the school might not allow/be able to provide a cram course to enable to her to take a new 2 year A level subject in one year. If she transfers anywhere else, they may well require that she does only 2 year courses. So she may end up having to spend an extra year to do an A level that isn't her first choice. That has knock-on effects in terms of free funding for foundation courses or retakes ( obviously hoping she won't need to retake, but sometimes it's necessary eg in case of accident/emergency).
Speak to the school and find out what they are proposing, speak to the private school, and speak to the current teacher personally.

Upthread the OP responded:

@Clarinet1 you’ve nailed it! The school offered it, therefore shouldn’t they be under obligation to ensure the full teach is delivered?
How can the school possibly do this? They cannot magic up teachers who do not exist. The state school should not have offered the subjects in the first place as they are simply not sustainable. Now though, probably the best the school can do is look at online study options for the affected students.
The Latin term "caveat emptor" comes to mind. If there is one teacher in a school offering a niche course - and it is known that there are very very few teachers of the subject nationally - the student and her parents should have considered the risks of retirement, better job offers, maternity leave, death of that one teacher.
Yes, the state/private divide is shit (as it is here in NZ) but that just means that state schools should avoid offering risky niche subjects as they are unlikely to be able to match the salaries offered by private schools.
There were two subjects I wanted to study when I was at state secondary school but couldn't. One wasn't offered to boys only and one wasn't offered at the school. I felt aggrieved but I just had to suck it up.
As a former teacher of a niche subject - very far removed from the ones you are talking about - I know that the departing teacher will be feeling awful about the impact on her students. It's great that you do not resent her decision. I also fully understand that your daughter is hurting and spooked by this change and I hope that some solution can be found for her and her classmates

Why is it the problem
of the private school? What obligation do they have?

So they want a teacher with a max of 6 years experience… For classics and ancient history…

not sure they have any intention of filling that position tbh.

Yeah, this. A History teacher or interested and dedicated English teacher should be totally fine

So they want a teacher with a max of 6 years experience… For classics and ancient history…
not sure they have any intention of filling that position tbh.
I agree. And in what world does a (state) teacher have to commit to being available on weekends?

57 is a huge number of pupils for what is a niche A level. My son couldn't stay on at his school 6th form because despite having more than 1 qualified teacher not enough pupils signed up to do the A level 5 being the minimum number required

Subject - Maths

Private schools are charities.

They do not pay VAT. They have approx 80% relief on business rates. They do not pay tax on donations.

All this is funded by the tax payer.

Therefore private schools have an obligation to give back to their communities, and this is exactly the sort of opportunity for them to do that.

@Pottedpalm re. the private school’s obligation - I refer you to @ShipSpace who was admirably succinct.

As a teacher in both state and private schools, a parent whose children attended private schools and a well informed person on this topic, I am fully aware of the obligations of those private schools which are run as charities. My point is that offering employment to a teacher does not mean they are responsible for the current pupils of that teacher, whatever the circumstances.

That collaboration does happen. Dds friend at the local state is doing drama a level at the private other 2 at the state. His parents are paying but just for that a level. Could some accommodation not be made ?

Feel your pain op not nearly as bad but Dd had 3 amazing teachers one for each a level largely why she chose to stay on. They have all left. They have been replaced to be fair but the ones that left were far better. Agree it’s gutting. We are going to pay one of the leaving teachers for a few sessions as a private tutor.

@Kleptronic @ShipSpace Ion re-reading, it’s the point made about the school attracting ‘adverse publicity’ which jarred. ‘Private school recruits top teacher’… surely that is what they are meant to do. I don’t think
they have an obligation to consider the students this might affect in any or all instances.

@ShipSpace private schools pay shed loads of VAT, ( unlike state schools who can reclaim their VAT) what they do not do is charge VAT. I work in finance in an independent and have also done the same job in a state school .

I wouldn’t get too bent out of shape personally. I had one that took physics and didn’t have a teacher final year, although they were private but there just wasn’t a spare person hanging around to apply. They just did diy using a textbook and internet resources. The school did a deal with a local uni to do all the practical lab stuff there over a few weekends and paid the uni tutor who supervised it. For exams they did a deal with another private to hand their exams over and they paid a teacher there a fee for marking. That did not include taking the kids through where they went wrong though, they had to figure it out themselves. The kids literally diy’d it though which was a handy skill and what is really required at that age in prep for uni. Mine has ASD/adhd and many other letters as well but was able to do it. They all worked in together, pretty sure the rest of the cohort had the same issues. They all did really well in it and did not seem to have been disadvantaged at all.

Talk to the schools, both the one DD is at and the independent the teacher is going to.

There are several options.

The school might get a new teacher - unlikely but stranger things have happened.

Pupils could take AS this year then do a different A level next year, not ideal but the school can support UCAS applications saying the teacher left.

Leaving teacher might be able to teach an evening class / holiday class at the old school.

The school the teacher is going to might allow your DD's class to attend, this is more likely if the class are looking at getting good grades because it boosts the independents results.

I’m sorry this is happening to your DD. I agree switching subjects at this stage would be difficult and wholly unfair.

Obviously you need to talk to the school. They might already be in conversation with the private school about “borrowing” the teacher or planning some sort of arrangement.

You could also consider reaching out to the private school to see if they might be willing to offer your daughter a scholarship for her last year, if she is academically gifted.

You may also want to join with the other parents to see if some sort of group class can be done by a tutor which shouldn’t be too expensive (although I accept it’s not fair).

If the worst comes to the worst, it’s worth considering that classical civilisation A Level (which is what it sounds like she is studying, rather than straight Classics which involves Latin and/or Ancient Greek) isn’t actually that tough and is something she can self study. Not ideal, but not that tricky. If there was a significant Latin or Ancient Greek component it would be much harder. But CC is considered a relatively easy subject (I did it many, many, years ago and it was mostly reading and remembering). Hopefully it will be significantly easier for your DD than most if it’s something she really loves as she will enjoy doing it. So try not to feel too downhearted.

To be fair independent schools aren’t immune to good teachers leaving either

I work in an independent school (not as a teacher) and I have heard it is a struggle to find teachers too.

OP, I haven’t been at my independent school long, but I honestly cannot imagine that we would let past pupils of any new teacher join their classes! I think looking into paying for the final year with bursary assistance or a scholarship, would be more realistic.

A neighbour teaches in a local independent friends at another one both said this is an issue in their schools

I contributed earlier in the thread. I hadn’t appreciated it was a Classical Civilisation A level. My responses were really geared towards the Latin / Greek A level which is difficult and requires specialist teaching. The A level the ops DD is sitting in my view can adequately be taught by a willing English or History teacher which I think her school plans to do (ops original post). On reflection I think while upsetting this is a storm in a teacup.

It’s all very well saying the school should be under an obligation to provide a teacher but they can’t knit one. I’m sure they will advertise and if someone applies they’ll appoint them but if nobody applies what can they do? At least it sounds like she’s doing classical civilisations rather than Latin so a history teacher should be able to pick this up.

There is a syllabus, the outgoing teacher is leaving resources, kings college London have a load of a level resources on their website so worth looking at. Hopefully as your Dd sounds motivated she will be ok.

I do sympathise, my Dd was in the same post when her product design teacher went on 12 months sick leave in the middle of a levels and the gap was filled by someone in the DT dept with no product design specialism. But she did ok.