To be utterly dumbfounded

[Swansandcustard]

DD17 is currently almost 1 year into A Levels at 6th form. She’s doing Classics, Ancient History and Sociology, with a view to go into either Archeology or Anthropology etc.

Yesterday the Classics/Ancient Rome teacher informed them they had basically been headhunted by the local private school, who were offering a lot more money and would fund their masters.

This teacher is the only non-private one of these subjects in our county. It’s very hard to recruit to, they’ve said they might put an English teacher in as substitute. The class is moving onto the Aeneid in the Autumn and they’ve been told they might have to teach themselves it. The departing teacher is leaving her material on Teams ‘in case of the worst’.

So, potentially 2 of DD’s 3 A Levels are fucked. Classics is acknowledged to be one of the most difficult A Levels as it is.

It’s horrific that the state school system is so unwelcoming to teachers that this kind of thing can go on. As annoyed as I am, I don’t blame the teacher. Why wouldn’t they take the offer?!

Thanks. Doh!

I did Classics at A Level and degree level. It's a respected subject to any graduate employer, even if you don't choose a history related career.

OP I would speak to the school to see what they suggest. I'd also look into a tutor for small group sessions, if you can get a few other parents to chip in. It might be that the school are willing to pay, since they will want the students to get good results.

There are lots of study guides to the Aeneid and an English Lit teacher will be able to teach them how to answer exam essay questions, how to lay out their coursework etc, even though they don't know the content.

If she's still set on a classics related degree, she could apply for a summer school to help boost her application. Repton school in Derbyshire have one, as well as the Sutton Trust at Oxford Uni.

I really hope the school are willing to help.

I've messaged you with a suggestion @Swansandcustard

Massive overreaction. Ideally DC is interested in the subject regardless of the teacher. It's not a bad thing to see this as an opportunity for DC to take more personal responsibility for learning and coursework/exam prep. That's what will happen at uni anyway.

Some good suggestions on this thread for getting outside support if needed. But ideally DC is interested enough to keep going regardless

Thanks all. Classics is more the civilisation, culture and arts of the Greeks/Romans etc. There are bits of Ancient Greek to learn, but it is only a small part of the syllabus. Yes, it’s very similar to ancient history, which is why she chose it! She laps this stuff up!

There’s absolutely no possibility of her taking the lead to address possible options. She suffers from extreme anxiety and is on the pathway for an ASD assessment.

It’s very easy for us adults to say ‘oh just choose a different A’ level a year in but try to put yourself in the shoes of a 17 yr old who has finally found a passion and has this rug pulled from under her. They were told that they were very lucky to be able to do Classics as there was no other teaching provision locally in the state sector (and we did look at several prior to her commencing sixth form, and would definitely agree). No teacher has left the private school, they’re expanding their provision. They’ve been scouting this teacher for a few months, as supposed ‘collaboration’ but are completely taking the teacher now.

The subject doesn’t fit neatly into other disciplines - most people don’t study The Odyssey/Aeneid and certainly not all the interwoven facts around the politics and events of the time.

I’ve left a message with the Dep Head…

When my DC made their A level options one thing they had to consider in all the places we looked at, school 6th form, college, 6th form college, faith school 6th form, fee paying 6th form , was that courses were only offered if enough pupils wished to take it. Which meant that they may have to decide did they want a different course at their preferred placement or or their preferred course at a different place.
Your daughter has chosen a very narrow study field for A level, if she can't find another place that offers those A levels, then I would suggest she broadens her A levels to English and History and specialises at uni either at undergraduate or better still masters

@Swansandcustard thanks for the update, just wanted to wish you and your DD the best and will have my fingers crossed her school help. ☘️

I don’t agree with those who are arguing about the value of classics or any other subject. To me the point is that the DD chose and started a course which the school offered and is now stuck without a teacher part way through at a stage where more less any solution (another school, another subject etc) would cause considerable stress and could demonstrably affect the DD’s future. I don’t know whether the withdrawal of a subject could technically legally constitute a breach of contract - perhaps a lawyer could advise.
I suggest the OP should talk to the school urgently explaining how concerned he
is, mentioning the DD’s potential special needs and insist a solution is found. (Actually, if DD gets an EHCP, I wonder whether some 1-1 payment could be used to get tuition).

I can imagine there’s no other states offering it and post will be hard to fill. My dd did GCSE classics and started yr 12 A level in Classics but they do 4 A levels to start and drop 1 and she dropped Classics. The teacher teaches Classics and Latin (whole school it’s a state grammar) No other school offers it locally. He’s an older teacher and I did have concerns re what if he leaves/retires. DD enjoyed it it was a mix of ancient history and literature so similar to English Literature. It’s seen as an academically rigorous subject.
I’d speak to school asap.

Oops - how concerned she is!

https://www.ocr.org.uk/Images/315133-specification-accredited-a-level-classical-civilisation-h408.pdf

It’s an interesting A level (I did classics at school and Latin at GCSE but couldn’t continue at A level as it wasn’t an option in state sixth forms)

@Clarinet1 you’ve nailed it! The school offered it, therefore shouldn’t they be under obligation to ensure the full teach is delivered? This really isn’t as simple as ‘oh well, change subjects’ - apart from the struggles I have mentioned Dd has, even IF she switched - she’s missed the best part of a year already. I also don’t think it’s a fair take to say that we have to expect this in ‘niche’ areas. Again, it smacks of these subjects are only for those wealthy enough to pay for it. The private school is taking the only available classics teacher in the county (the others are at the….wait for it…..other private schools).

Not heard from school yet. I would imagine there’s a number of concerned parents as several kids were aiming for Oxbridge.

The sixth form is in Bedfordshire

I’m not sure you can really blame an “unwelcoming state sector” for the fact that there are only a few teachers who specialise in what is a very niche subject. I think ancient history is taught by history generalists in our school.

speak to the school. The teacher presumably will have given them more notice than she gave your daughter. They will almost certainly already have a plan in place for next year.

My son did Latin A level in a state school, but only because of the willingness of an English teacher to step in (he had a history in Classics) The whole group of 5 got good grades.

"Not heard from school yet. I would imagine there’s a number of concerned parents as several kids were aiming for Oxbridge."

That might give extra incentive for the school to do the best they can, if they're the sort that trumpet how many got into Oxbridge.

Lots of good resources available online if needs be.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN36Hwtm4-c2QkANlyi0jqx2VME_Gvymm

https://www.classcivsummerschool.com/

Dd is doing History and Ancient History at Uni. She's seen the job prospects are really awful in her field so she's going to do a Law Conversion after she's graduated.

How many pupils are affected?

Advert went live 5 days ago - 28-36k with requirement to be available weekends and a degree in the subject.

There are 57 students who will be affected by this. Still no call from the school

Gosh that’s a lot. I was imagining a handful. That’s probably a good thing as they can’t brush 57 under carpet.
Have you managed to contact any other parents.

Have you thought this through?

If a school needs to give pupils and their parents notice that they are to discontinue a given subject, that notice would likely need to be more than 6 months. The incoming lower 6th would need to know, the school would need to look for a replacement and have failed, etc etc.

Then, students already in L6th would need to complete their U6th.

So a teacher would need to give approx 18 months notice to resign. For whatever reason: maternity, new job, relocation, retirement. And what about if they’re sick or suffer an accident?

As you say, the teacher is within his/her rights, the school has to accept the decision.

Some provision should be made for the current L6th cohort, though. A supply teacher, cooperation with a local school still providing the subject. These students can’t be abandoned mid-A Level.

Point being, the solution here needs to be constructive in looking for workarounds, just for a year. Not blaming or finger pointing.

I realise there can’t be unreasonable notice periods imposed on teachers. My angst is from it being MY CHILD that’s affected, not a hypothetical situation, but also the fact that state education is so shit for teachers that again moneyed privilege can just buy them out. The private school was exploring why they have such large numbers taking the subject? It feels like they’re taking the only non-private teacher to add to their own portfolio and presumably thinking they’ll catch some of the students that would have gone to the state sixth form.

I do not blame the teacher. One bit. The issue is the fact that money trumps everything, every time, and more and more, if you can’t go private you just don’t get a look in. This is the diametric opposite of ‘levelling up’.

This is absolutely not true! I went from an archaeology degree into a finance job specifically because they wanted a humanities background. Left after 3 years because I hated it, and as it happens I’m now a lecturer in Classics (which includes ancient history and archaeology). OP, don’t worry. Lots of our students don’t have any background in Classics, and when they graduate they go on to a variety of successful careers because they develop transferable skills in research, writing, and critical thinking.