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Original poster

Is Rishi Sunak utterly thick?

400 replies

noblegiraffe · 17/04/2023 21:07

Today he actually went ahead and announced his plans for everyone studying maths till 18.

And all everyone commenting on this on the news or social media has been saying today is "but this is mad because there aren't enough maths teachers to teach the qualifications we already have".

And teachers including maths teachers, are going on strike again next week because the government refuses to pay them properly. The government also failed to meet its maths teacher trainee recruitment target last year and will again this year.

This announcement just gives everyone the wonderful opportunity to point these governmental failings again and again.

Why the fuck would anyone with any political sense announce a policy that cannot happen and gives everyone the opportunity to point out that it can't happen because the government are shit?

Just why?

OP posts:
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10
MrsHerculePoirot · 17/04/2023 23:20

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:12

No his idea is a good idea, the population does need better skills

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So bearing in mind his idea is not learning at home via a games console ‘if you want’. How do you think we are going to resource those lessons in school?

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:22

MrsHerculePoirot · 17/04/2023 23:20

So bearing in mind his idea is not learning at home via a games console ‘if you want’. How do you think we are going to resource those lessons in school?

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That's outside my level of expertise

ilovesooty · 17/04/2023 23:24

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:10

Your MrsHerculePoirot,
The point I'm suggesting, people easily point to lack of teachers ect, well with technology today majority of the population can teach themselves as the same knowledge teachers would teach, is the same or similar information as would be on eg YouTube etc

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Good grief.

MrsHerculePoirot · 17/04/2023 23:26

So if you’ve got all the teachers telling you it can’t be resourced, who do have that expertise, then maybe listen to them?

As a Maths teacher I’d love everyone to study maths longer - but not in its current form. GCSE is not fit for purpose. There are not enough teachers to teach everyone to 16. So unless a plan is in place for this - which it isn’t - then it’s a shit idea. If your plan is to teach it using technology then where is that money coming from to fund the technology and resources needed in school? Nowhere. There is NO money for schools.

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:28

MrsHerculePoirot · 17/04/2023 23:26

So if you’ve got all the teachers telling you it can’t be resourced, who do have that expertise, then maybe listen to them?

As a Maths teacher I’d love everyone to study maths longer - but not in its current form. GCSE is not fit for purpose. There are not enough teachers to teach everyone to 16. So unless a plan is in place for this - which it isn’t - then it’s a shit idea. If your plan is to teach it using technology then where is that money coming from to fund the technology and resources needed in school? Nowhere. There is NO money for schools.

As a nation then, we should rather than expect teachers to produce and Shepard the flock. Society needs to improve itself and that can be partly achieved via online

LemonSwan · 17/04/2023 23:30

Is this not just basic maths? As in short course type thing rather than a whole further maths a level?

If so that would make sense. Writing, reading and maths are the corner stones of most things in life. You automatically continue reading and writing by virtue of just continuing education so no idea why maths wouldn’t be included.

What is more confusing is that everyone seems to have been taught different maths 🤣

Like this for example.. 6 ÷ 2(1 + 2)

To me that’s 1. Kids today are taught thats 9. Some others think it’s 6.

So who fucking knows.

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:30

MrsHerculePoirot · 17/04/2023 23:26

So if you’ve got all the teachers telling you it can’t be resourced, who do have that expertise, then maybe listen to them?

As a Maths teacher I’d love everyone to study maths longer - but not in its current form. GCSE is not fit for purpose. There are not enough teachers to teach everyone to 16. So unless a plan is in place for this - which it isn’t - then it’s a shit idea. If your plan is to teach it using technology then where is that money coming from to fund the technology and resources needed in school? Nowhere. There is NO money for schools.

Plus if society would teach themselves more than they currently do. Then the infrastructure is already in place for the majority of people, if they already have the internet, if they already have the consoles, then all they need is a pen and paper, and the desire and motivation to learn and study and improve their knowledge and understanding.

MrsHerculePoirot · 17/04/2023 23:31

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:28

As a nation then, we should rather than expect teachers to produce and Shepard the flock. Society needs to improve itself and that can be partly achieved via online

Show quote history

Rishi isn’t talking about ‘improving society’. He’s talking about teaching maths until 18. Have you even understood what he is proposing because it very much doesn’t feel like it….

Anyway I’m off to bed now. Ready for a day of absconding whilst my GCSE class learn on their own via Xboxes…..

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 17/04/2023 23:32

If we're looking at post-16 maths, what would be an actually good plan would be a focus on GCSE resit.

Last year the pass rate for maths GCSE resit was 20%. Only 1 in 5 resitters passed.

I've taught GCSE resit, it's a tough gig. You've got the kids who never turn up, the ones who do but really don't care so just doss around, and then the ones who are desperate to pass because they need it but you've got to try to get them to pass with a timetable of half the number of lessons that they had when they didn't pass GCSE in Y11. And then they also have their new subjects to focus on and a sixth form to settle into.

Is compulsory GCSE resit actually working? The answer is probably no.

OP posts:
Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:33

MrsHerculePoirot · 17/04/2023 23:31

Rishi isn’t talking about ‘improving society’. He’s talking about teaching maths until 18. Have you even understood what he is proposing because it very much doesn’t feel like it….

Anyway I’m off to bed now. Ready for a day of absconding whilst my GCSE class learn on their own via Xboxes…..

Show quote history

If they were better students and wanting to learn more, they would use the technology available to them, and the school libraries etc.

I understand the basics of what the PM is suggesting, I'm offering a different way that it can also be achieved.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 17/04/2023 23:33

Like this for example.. 6 ÷ 2(1 + 2)

That's a problem with shit notation more than anything else.

OP posts:
Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:34

@MrsHerculePoirot
It's been intriguing debating, have a good zz,

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 17/04/2023 23:34

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:33

If they were better students and wanting to learn more, they would use the technology available to them, and the school libraries etc.

I understand the basics of what the PM is suggesting, I'm offering a different way that it can also be achieved.

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But it's a non-starter.

I think you are seriously underestimating how much energy in schools is spent on simply getting the kids to do the work. Even in sixth form.

OP posts:
Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:36

noblegiraffe · 17/04/2023 23:34

But it's a non-starter.

I think you are seriously underestimating how much energy in schools is spent on simply getting the kids to do the work. Even in sixth form.

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That's the pitty with the majority of society, so much potential and yet, as you say ......

Sugarbeaches · 17/04/2023 23:37

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:33

If they were better students and wanting to learn more, they would use the technology available to them, and the school libraries etc.

I understand the basics of what the PM is suggesting, I'm offering a different way that it can also be achieved.

Show quote history

You keep mentioning that “if they were better students…”

You seem to be wilfully misunderstanding the core role of a teacher is to motivate and to cajole and to care. None of which can be achieved with a YouTube clip.

There doesn’t seem to be an answer posed to you about how exactly you plan to motivate the students to do this, except “improve society”, which is a complete cop out.

Starhead69 · 17/04/2023 23:38

Yes he is thick. Clearly not very good at maths either

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 23:41

Sugarbeaches · 17/04/2023 23:37

You keep mentioning that “if they were better students…”

You seem to be wilfully misunderstanding the core role of a teacher is to motivate and to cajole and to care. None of which can be achieved with a YouTube clip.

There doesn’t seem to be an answer posed to you about how exactly you plan to motivate the students to do this, except “improve society”, which is a complete cop out.

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That's understandable

Wenfy · 17/04/2023 23:42

I’ve already been contacted by several FE colleges asking if I want to locum as a maths teaching assistant & they will pay for any and all qualifications I may want to pursue to become a teacher. (i’m in stem, not maths but more statistics based). So I guess that’s how schools and colleges will fill spaces.

Choccyeggs20 · 17/04/2023 23:54

Doesn’t Rishi’s family invest in some sort of tech company or am I just making that up? It won’t be a real teacher involved…it’ll be some AI equivalent.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 17/04/2023 23:56

I've got a memory of Charlie Stripp of the NCETM who is on Rishi's panel of experts previously saying that a potential solution to the shortage of maths teachers was to have one teacher on a live video teaching several classes of children at the same time.

I really hope lockdown changed his mind on that.

OP posts:
L1ttledrummergirl · 17/04/2023 23:59

Hawkins003 · 17/04/2023 22:56

The other option, using charity shops etc to get encyclopedia, or maths books when available etc, or borrowing from the local library

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Pmsl. Have you been into any of our vastly underfunded libraries recently?

Thriwit · 18/04/2023 00:01

Surely the issue of kids not achieving in maths actually starts in primary? If they don’t understand the basics well, they’ll never get anywhere. Therefore the answer is not just to keep them studying, but long-term to invest in proper maths-specific teachers for primary, with maths-specific TAs and more 1-2-1 support.

L1ttledrummergirl · 18/04/2023 00:01

noblegiraffe · 17/04/2023 22:25

Talking of Rishi's lack of political nous, here's another example.

I mean, has he not watched The Thick of It? Liam Bentley?

Possibly stupid but more probably this.
2nd PM to have received a fpn while in government.

Youdoyoubabe · 18/04/2023 00:06

I hope they do it though. We were putting bets on the Grand National on Saturday and my kids who have all gone through to maths GCSE could barely understand the odds, probability or how each way might work.

When I try talking to them about investments, mortgages, loans, credit cards etc it is like trying to communicate with toddlers, they just don't get it. I have encouraged them all to either listen to me or take a basic personal finance online course.

Hawkins003 · 18/04/2023 00:11

L1ttledrummergirl · 17/04/2023 23:59

Pmsl. Have you been into any of our vastly underfunded libraries recently?

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Not recently, as world of books on eBay , had the second hand books I needed about Jamie , and JP Morgan and chase.