Is Rishi Sunak utterly thick?

[noblegiraffe]

Today he actually went ahead and announced his plans for everyone studying maths till 18.

And all everyone commenting on this on the news or social media has been saying today is "but this is mad because there aren't enough maths teachers to teach the qualifications we already have".

And teachers including maths teachers, are going on strike again next week because the government refuses to pay them properly. The government also failed to meet its maths teacher trainee recruitment target last year and will again this year.

This announcement just gives everyone the wonderful opportunity to point these governmental failings again and again.

Why the fuck would anyone with any political sense announce a policy that cannot happen and gives everyone the opportunity to point out that it can't happen because the government are shit?

Just why?

No, no, just wishing is the way forward.

I wish for unicorns grazing in sunny uplands and they are of course exactly the result of brexit as we all wished for.

I like the way a clown announced the policy and there is a clown on the poster.

If you too were as good at Maths and stealing other people's money as they are you too would have the same future.

I am dyslexic. I didn’t get maths (even 0+0 was a problem) until I was 12 when my maths teacher at the time (rumoured to be a dragon but was actually lovely) sat me down and used a combination of number blocks and Excel to explain how counting patterns worked. It was a last ditch attempt as he was teaching the advanced maths class the following year and wanted to keep everyone in his current class.

I got it in literally 10mins. I went from not knowing the logic behind counting to being able to work out anything, and not only did I get into the advanced GCSE set, I got a D in A Level maths (amazing for me) and now work in a profession where I use statistical analysis to find patterns in data.

DD is ASD and never had the problems I did. I actually can’t teach her maths because she gets it in a way I never did and my ‘long winded calculation approach’ just confuses her lol.

@Wenfy pleased you had that support, and it helped, but honestly with DS2 it didn’t help at all, he would sit with the private tutor at home, and he could solve the maths, great stuff, sleep, next morning couldn’t remember a thing! In the end the tutor said you are wasting your money. The tutor was really good and helped DS1 pass his Higher Paper Maths GCSE. Happy to say DS2 is 20 now, and works in a very niche area of tech that interests him and he has excelled at it. I say sometimes, how can you deal with all that code and only remember enough to pass one GCSE Eng lit.

I mean...maths. Isn't that literally what AI is for?

We'd be better off concentrating on creative skills. At least for now, they still need human input.

So by vocational subjects you mean Apprenticeships? Our Tutors then will Nedd to have maths skills themselves in addition to the vast vocational experience they need to deliver the subject? Who is going to pay to unskilled these Tutira? How would you suggest they find time to incorporate maths into a session that also has to include: teaching + learning on the subject, British Values, E+D, Prevent, employer engagement, off the job training + directed learning? Tutors currently struggle to fit all of this into 3 hour sessions, if they have to add maths then this could add 30 mins extra to each session. This means they could only then see 1 learner per day due to the amount of admin/marking/travelling time per learner. That is 5 learners per week x 4 weeks = 20 learners per month. Average caseloads at an ITP are 40 on Standards but many Tutors are at 50+ learners. Learners must be seen once a month and teaching delivered or we have to pay back the money for that month.

Whichever way you look at it shoe horning maths in is just a tick box exercise and will not benefit learners. If they need to teach maths then it should be done by maths specialists and not added to the burden of vocational Tutors who may have never taught maths and have low levels of maths skills + confidence themselves.

But what are the key take-aways?

It's all topsy Turvey

A pupillage struggling to get maths at 16 after endless years of trying is almost a lost cause and it'd cruel to make them carry on.

The money and time and resources must be spent at primary level! They race through with no time to help dc get the basic foundation in place.

There is also usually some speficic reason dc struggle and again because no teachers get taught sen. Few Senco actually know what sen are... Who on earth is supposed to have the knowledge to say... Bring visual aids in for dc who need to see things to make that connection?

It's fhe blind leading the blind.

It’s tricky as so many factors to consider….

Let's not bring too much into the equation.

It's just distraction. From the fact they aren't fixing any of the actual issues in the country. Really we should ignore it entirely and force them to address what they aren't doing.

It annoys me just because he’s a maths nerd he wants to inflict it on everyone else.

he said today you can’t make movies , etc without maths because of vectors. Well firstly I think that’s very specific and would be the sort of thing you learn as a junior camera person. Secondly you could say you can’t make films without art…..but he’s not making everyone do art till 18yo

what about English? Why just maths? Oh because he likes it. Crock of shit.

he mentioned nursing. Well I’ve managed 15 years of front line patient care inc medication calculations and drip rates with only a C in my gcse maths. I’m actually very good at arithmetic. Less good at algebra but never needed algebra in nursing.

there is nothing I learnt above primary mathematics which has helped me in nursing so why he feels another two years is needed god knows. Plus as part of a nursing degree students are trained and assessed in medicine calculations. It’s an nmc course requirement

I still think we need teachers. I looked at one of the haberdashersadams ones. Although the voice over was clear I struggled to attend to what he was doing. He kept moving the cursor whilst he as speaking, I ended up following that as it zipped back and forth. I also found my eyes wandering to other equations on the page. I can't imagine those distractions would be unique to me.

How much does anyone actually remember of what they have watched on TV?

I'd suggest very little, same with watching a video about maths. Its not really teaching, and certainly doesn't involve much learning.

I think it is important to differentiate.

Well that’s the thing, despite those videos being freely available, and pupils being told to use them, they don’t seem to have transformed maths education.

Kids still need a teacher.

I suspect Sunak thought this might play well to the kind of people who advocate a return for National Service and so on but he's miscalculated (ironically).

he said today you can’t make movies , etc without maths because of vectors.

Has anyone told Spielberg this?

A guide or teacher, but not necessarily a school teacher, just someone that knows the subjects

Football fans would disagree, Harry Potter fans would disagree, supernatural fans would disagree, if people are motivated they will study and learn

"Why is math important in film?
A great deal of math goes into the work of the cinematographer and their cameramen. Much of this work has to do with the video camera itself, which requires the use of math to choose the appropriate aperture speeds, the location of focal points, and to decide on the best camera angles for a given shot."

I've not looked at the vectors

The thing is, I presume that the aim is to improve Maths knowledge and attainment post 16 in those who are NOT already engaged by Maths - as the latter will often be doing Maths A level or subjects that explicitly use mathematical knowledge.

Those who are not currently engaged are the least likely to have the self motivation and intrinsic curiosity to fare well with online learning. As every teacher who delivered online learning during lockdown knows, the pupils who made least progress online were those who were not anyway engaged by the subject and those who needed the most day to day support and management in the classroom.

Hugely unfair though it would be - and grossly unjust both to Maths teachers and to those who already study Maths by choice post 16, who would get worse provision - if online learning is touted as ‘the solution’ then it should be aimed at the existing motivated high flyers choosing Maths, leaving teachers for the disengaged coerced group that Rishi is supposedly targeting and who need live teaching.

I understand the math behind making a snooker ball fall in a pocket by hitting it at the right angle with the cue ball.

It doesn't really help me achieve the aim though.

Is this proposal for public as well as state schools? Not sure the fees will need to be as high or public schools even exist, if all you need is youtube and a wifi connection.

Surely it's nightmarish enough with the reliance and obsession with social media, without more encouragement to sit inside with no real friends in person and do sums.