To be this upset about a school place

[cdoth]

Been in tears since I found out my DS didn't get offered a place at the school I applied for.

For background - he has significant speech delay and is on the pathway for an autism diagnosis. He is currently at the nursery of the school we put as our first choice, he is really settled there and they have been fantastic with regards to his SEN. They are helping us to gather as much evidence as possible for his EHCP. The school is also the closest one to us.

I am distraught with worry for what the future holds for him now having to go to a completely new school. I can't stop crying because this seems so unfair for him. He is not good with new places/people, when he started his current nursery last year it took weeks for him to settle in because he was so upset. And for him to have to go through that again genuinely breaks my heart.

I know we can appeal but I don't feel hopeful. Has anybody else been in the same situation? I just don't know where to go from here now.

@cdoth we were advised that it's always worth appealing because even if you lose the appeal you are prioritised on the waiting list simply due to having gone through the appeal process x good luck x so stressful for you x

Sorry, not true. WL are ordered strictly according to admissions criteria. You don't move in priority unless circumstances change.

Ed psych won’t make a diagnosis. You would need to be seen by a cahms/CYPS practitioner for an assessment for adhd. The Ed psych may diagnose global developmental delay. That would be possibly diagnosed if there is significant delay in 2 or more areas. EHCP doesn’t require a diagnosis - although one would definitely help but not essential. In fact my on DD is diagnosed with ASD but doesn’t have an EHCP - we haven’t applied. She wouldn’t meet the criteria, I’m also an sen teacher so can gauge whether it was worth out while applying. Also if EHCP is refused you must appeal. Many are refused initially but then granted on appeal.

@LIZS we were advised of this by a headteacher at our first choice schools so either it's different in different areas or he doesn't understand the system! X

I knew enough to push for an EHCP and made the application myself when school said DD2 wouldn't meet the criteria. My child ended up in a very expensive independent specialist school.

Lougle we have had a very similar experience. I was told repeatedly my child had no issues as they were excelling academically and excellent at masking. I have also tried to help/support other families but it is a gruelling process and so many fall by the wayside... and the councils etc. are relying on this sadly.

He does not understand the system! There is no subjectivity in wl order.

Apologies if I'm repeating someone else (I have read all of your posts, OP), just to try to explain the distance thing - you're sort of looking at it the wrong way round.

They don't give every child their nearest school (if they did that, class numbers would be extremely variable as some schools will be in more residential areas and some less so), what they do is offer places to the (say) 30 closest children who have applied to a particular school. So it depends on how many applicants live closer to the school than you do, NOT which school is closest to you. I hope that makes sense.

Distance is also usually quite a late criterion - it's common for looked after children and siblings of existing pupils to have priority, sometimes children of staff are included in a criterion and sometimes another category many be used (for example, a faith based school may give priority to children of that faith).

All of this information should be readily available on the websites of the schools and also via the local authority website. Ours will say the distance the "30th" successful applicant lives from the school too.

I would take some time to arm yourself with information (about the EHCP process too) and go from there, but, as you say, perhaps following all of this another school may be better anyway. Good luck!

It’s very unfair this has happened. Hopefully you will have a successful appeal. If you don’t get the school place you can always homeschool temporarily if you are able to and put your name down with your local council for your school of choice.

Has anybody here had experience of deferring reception for their child? Realistically it would be the best option for him as he is so far behind most other kids the same age as him and it would allow him another 12 months of catching up, but I'm wondering about the future implications it could have for him..

Plus it would allow us more time to get the EHCP for next year.

He's completely incorrect. Unfortunately Heads often don't know the appeals and admissions codes as well as they should. It would be completely against the admissions code to prioritise appellants on the waiting list.

Yes. But you need to check your LA policy for this.

This is not true.

Ok... Getting an ASD diagnosis shouldn't cost money, neither should the EHCP. The EHCP is a document you can file yourself saying what support for your child would look like. It needs to be practical things rather than a list of problems. Such as My child has SPD and needs to avoid velvet or cord fabrics. Or, My child has difficulty managing simple instructions so would need an adult to explain them on a one to one basis etc. On the Speech, you could write they have speech issues and would need support in class to be understood and sessions with a speech therapist twice a week (for example).

On the last part of the EHCP, you can put a named school you believe meets the needs of your child. You can say why they can meet the needs of the child. The school then has to appeal or give you a place rather than you needing to appeal. You still have time for this entire process if you do it now. Look at SENDIASS for EHCP advice

This is not an accurate description of an EHCP or the process for getting one. EHCPs have a strict legal process. The parents give advice to the local authority about the child, but that is alongside advice from an educational psychologist, the child's current educational setting, etc.

If the child has a speech and language difficulty, a speech and language therapist would need to assess and make recommendations. Parents can't stipulate what support the child needs without some foundational evidence.

With regards to school placements, the school doesn't appeal anything. If they feel that they can't meet the needs set out in the draft EHCP, they inform the LA of the reasons why. The LA decide if the reasons are reasonable, and if so, they inform the parents. The parents have the opportunity to appeal to the SEND tribunal. In practice, it's quite hard for schools to turn down a child unless there are significant reasons why they can't meet need, and that can't be ameliorated by reasonable adjustments.

Sorry I haven’t read the whole thread but the closest school isn’t always your catchment school- in our case we put closest (quarter of a mile) as first choice but didn’t get it as it wasn’t catchment school (a mile away). We knew all this we were just hoping to get in anyway! As pp have said there is a lot of movement between getting places and the actual start dates so i am sure it will work out.

If your child started in the nursery in September then they have done well to get speech ther

Sorry posted too soon.
Speech therapy and EP in already. It takes time to build up enough evidence to apply for an echp then a minimum of 20 weeks to get it done. There are massive backlogs everywhere. It would be rare that they could get it done in time for it to influence school placements. I'm a nursery teacher and sendco.
Your best bet it to either defer the place and he spends another year in nursery then get the echp and choose that school or visit the other school and have a honest conversation about his needs and whether these can be met. With a robust transition and possibly part time to start it could work. I know many people gutted by not getting their first choice but being happy overall once the dust has settled and a plan is in place.

Ah @Lougle This will be why I got my own child's EHCP first time and have never had an EHCP rejected for any I've helped write. You don't need a school's involvement to START the process or request one. You are correct that part of the drafting process will involve supporting evidence from medical professionals but you don't need to obtain private consultations with private individuals for this. The documents provided during the diagnosis process are sufficient and do not cost money. I've done this process plenty of times with 100% first time success without expenditure.

OP be careful with SENDIASS, some are good but too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. IPSEA and SOSSEN are better.

Section I isn’t the last section of an EHCP either.

Schools don’t appeal anything. Most academy schools can seek the Secretary of State’s determination as to whether they should have been named by the LA, but this isn’t an appeal and the parents can still appeal any decision via SENDIST.

Honestly I’d be cautiously optimistic. I kept my son back a year as he’s august born and I thought he needed more time. This meant that I still had to apply (in order to refuse a place) to school last year and he got into an oversubscribed one. I felt terrible as it took them ages to update the system ( getting close to summer holidays)So they didn’t offer out his place till then. I’m sure you’ll have some summer babies that won’t take up their places and first choice should go to kids with EHCPs and siblings. Definitely appeal and good luck x

Well then you'll know to give accurate advice and that the parents don't write EHCPs and don't dictate the content of them. No money needs to be spent, but parents do need to know that clause 9:49 of the SEN Code of Practice says that the Local Authority must seek "Advice and information from any person requested by the child’s parent or young person, where the local authority considers it reasonable to do so." which means that if the child has sensory needs, for example, the parents can request advice from an occupational therapist, even if OTs aren't commissioned for sensory assessments in their area (as is the case in Hampshire, for example).

OP, I would make another post in the SEN section asking about deferred entry into reception for a child with possible ASD while you apply for an EHCP, look at schools etc.

I know lots of PP's are saying just stay on wait lists, you will get your first choice etc. etc. but I don't think parents of children without SEN fully understand the implications of what your child's needs might look like in the classroom or a mainstream school (especially one which isn't offering the right support).

Appeal (I've done it twice & won, didn't appeal a 3rd time but it worked out better than expected)

Think out your strategy & Google the present rules for appeal, as you're emotional (reasonably) take a calm logical person as support (take notes with you in case you forget something)....maybe do a practice at home. I helped finding facts for someone with a SEN DD and found a specific (to their condition) charity that helped.....maybe an autism charity will help

OP - I'd really urge you to take this out of AIBU and start a thread in Primary Education about the appeals/waiting lists side of thing, and one of the SN forums about the SEN stuff/EHCP etc. AIBU can be a real drop-in place for people who can argue very authoritatively sounding about things that they're not always factually accurate about.

Also - get an appointment to visit the allocated school, talk to the SENCO and ideally whoever will be class teacher for September (although this might not have been decided yet obviously) - at the moment it's a big flashing red question mark of unknown in your mind and it might well not need to be that way.

As an aside - my youngest had minimal intelligible speech when she started school, massive continence issues - and was very close in age to my eldest who was in the year above. She'd started school and, well, it wasn't the greatest but I'd listened to MN about local schools and all that stuff - and after school applications had gone in for the youngest - had a huge wobble, things went very wrong for the eldest and I realised they were really only paying lip service to the idea they'd be able to meet the youngest's needs. Ended up hitting the email trail up for local schools - found one with spaces that I'd never ever considered - and moved both kids - and it was fucking amazing. Best parenting decision I ever made in terms of the attitude to SEN, the support for DD's speech, the whole nurturing vibe of the place... shame about the juniors it fed into which was shite, but we won't talk about that aspect now! Just saying that because sometimes things do happen in a way that feels terrible at the time but pans out for the best.