Page 4 | Is this the end for the NHS?

Gigihadr · 2023-04-16T12:02:40+00:00

Looking at the news I don’t really see how this healthcare crisis is going to be resolved. Should I try and take out private healthcare insurance now? Is it possible to get seen in an emergency privately? It seems like there aren’t going to be good doctors/ nurses left in the NHS as they seem to be all leaving in droves for NZ/ Aus. Hoping that at least some of the better ones will go into private healthcare and thinking better to sign up sooner rather than get caught ill with nowhere to turn to.

Nordicrain · 20/04/2023 14:43

I have private health insurance through work. It excludes preexisting conditions and I need GP preferal. So check terms carefully as otherwise you might not find yourself covered and access can be tricky because you still have the gp referral bottle neck.

Jowak1 · 20/04/2023 14:49

I think if you can afford private health care then do it. My husband had been I'll with heart problems ( fixed now thanks God) for approximately 2 years and the waiting list for an appointment with the cardiologist was 12 months! He'd already been off work months and we couldn't wait any longer. Luckily we could afford a private appointment so I rang up on a Monday and got an appointment on the following Thursday. He diagnosed my husband and he's doing well. Can't imagine another year of waiting on the NHS but feel sorry for those who can't afford to go private.

RattlewhenIwalk · 20/04/2023 15:01

What's the expression be careful of what you wish for? I had private coverage through DH company insurance scheme and claimed for necessary but elective surgery. All good, the claim was paid and time moved on.

DH moved company, has healthcare as part of the package, same setup as previously. I got refused coverage. I've since been refused by another insurance company due to pre-existing conditions.

We're very much in danger of having a 2 tier healthcare system and it'll be down to how wealthy you are.

Original poster

Gigihadr · 20/04/2023 18:33

RattlewhenIwalk · 20/04/2023 15:01

What's the expression be careful of what you wish for? I had private coverage through DH company insurance scheme and claimed for necessary but elective surgery. All good, the claim was paid and time moved on.

DH moved company, has healthcare as part of the package, same setup as previously. I got refused coverage. I've since been refused by another insurance company due to pre-existing conditions.

We're very much in danger of having a 2 tier healthcare system and it'll be down to how wealthy you are.

Absolutely. But we have a Tory government. Ultimately they’re a party that only care for the rich and wealthy and we will have a two tier healthcare system as a result of people’s political choices

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SnapCracklePopBang · 20/04/2023 18:52

Private healthcare: medical care is from consultants only.
Trainees of all grades leaving for Australia: none get to consultant level here.
Private healthcare: eventually no UK doctors.

Enjoy the private system while it lasts. Soon it will be feeling the effects of the trainee doctor exodus, as much as the NHS is.

Original poster

Gigihadr · 20/04/2023 21:32

SnapCracklePopBang · 20/04/2023 18:52

Private healthcare: medical care is from consultants only.
Trainees of all grades leaving for Australia: none get to consultant level here.
Private healthcare: eventually no UK doctors.

Enjoy the private system while it lasts. Soon it will be feeling the effects of the trainee doctor exodus, as much as the NHS is.

Private healthcare will offer attractive salaries to doctors at our expense. That’ll be enough to bring doctors back but ultimately we will all suffer. Thanks tories

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EffortlessDesmond · 20/04/2023 21:51

I get young doctors wanting better rewards for everything they are asked to put in in the early years of their careers. But I do think an updated training contract could be developed. For instance, 5 years medical school and house training. you pay the first three years of your degree like anyone else does with parental help mostly, and the NHS then gets you cheap for two years. When you qualify fully, you can walk away from the NHS, but your training costs are instantly due in full if you emigrate in your first 10 years. If you qualify, in anything, on a state subsidised ticket, then you should be required to work off the debt. Full time, part time... I don't care. But I do get quite cross about doctors trained in the UK moving to Australia for half the hours, and twice the money. I can't fault their reasoning.

Original poster

Gigihadr · 20/04/2023 23:40

EffortlessDesmond · 20/04/2023 21:51

I get young doctors wanting better rewards for everything they are asked to put in in the early years of their careers. But I do think an updated training contract could be developed. For instance, 5 years medical school and house training. you pay the first three years of your degree like anyone else does with parental help mostly, and the NHS then gets you cheap for two years. When you qualify fully, you can walk away from the NHS, but your training costs are instantly due in full if you emigrate in your first 10 years. If you qualify, in anything, on a state subsidised ticket, then you should be required to work off the debt. Full time, part time... I don't care. But I do get quite cross about doctors trained in the UK moving to Australia for half the hours, and twice the money. I can't fault their reasoning.

Why would any of them stay given the current state of the nhs?

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fiftiesmum · 21/04/2023 08:33

Most stay because they have family and other commitments in the UK - perhaps a partner with an established career.
At the moment doctors can only reasonably emigrate at the end of foundation training or at consultant stage.
Once they start the specialist or intermediate training then this isn't recognised in many countries so would have to start again at ST1 or IMT1.

moveoverye · 21/04/2023 08:44

ILikePizzas · 16/04/2023 13:28

A lot of things are in a state of decline that they won't quickly come out of. Not just NHS and not just the UK.

You might not think it, but these are the "good old days". In 5 years time, remember I said that.

I hope you’re wrong with all my heart, but I fear you are right.

EffortlessDesmond · 21/04/2023 09:32

I am looking forward to reading about Wes Streeting's speech to the King's Fund later today. He is going to say that the NHS needs reform as much as, if not more than, more resources. Which is a significant step towards common sense. However, when Labour is elected, they'll probably appoint him to some ministry that ain't Health.

CallintheClownies · 21/04/2023 09:41

@Gigihadr Not going to get into the politics with you other than to say I disagree 100%. The issue is not the Tories but local NHS trusts who are mismanaged and waste money (on Chief Execs salaries and poor purchasing powers.) That money could go to doctors and nurses. You can't blame the Tories when the money for the NHS has increased by millions every single year. More investment that under Labour.

However, on the issue of private health and NHS- the NHS is there for RTAs, heart attacks and life threatening emergencies.

Private insurance is there for elective surgery or other treatment. Many also now offer private GP appointments , usually by phone.

Original poster

Gigihadr · 21/04/2023 15:21

CallintheClownies · 21/04/2023 09:41

@Gigihadr Not going to get into the politics with you other than to say I disagree 100%. The issue is not the Tories but local NHS trusts who are mismanaged and waste money (on Chief Execs salaries and poor purchasing powers.) That money could go to doctors and nurses. You can't blame the Tories when the money for the NHS has increased by millions every single year. More investment that under Labour.

However, on the issue of private health and NHS- the NHS is there for RTAs, heart attacks and life threatening emergencies.

Private insurance is there for elective surgery or other treatment. Many also now offer private GP appointments , usually by phone.

the problem is the NHS isn’t currently there for RTAs, heart attacks and life threatening emergencies. I have heard horror stories recently. One of my friends was waiting 10+ hours for an ambulance with chest pain. He had a heart attack. Then there was a wait in ED. He has lasting damage to his heart because he could not get into hospital in time and then there was a shortage of doctors once he got into hospital. Funny because it wasn’t like this 10 years ago? Steve Barclay is trying to gaslight junior doctors and they are leaving in droves to Australia/ NZ because we can’t pay them properly. Meanwhile the conservative government have squandered the money their mates like Michelle Moan with dodgy PPE deals

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MissyB1 · 21/04/2023 16:17

fiftiesmum · 21/04/2023 08:33

Most stay because they have family and other commitments in the UK - perhaps a partner with an established career.
At the moment doctors can only reasonably emigrate at the end of foundation training or at consultant stage.
Once they start the specialist or intermediate training then this isn't recognised in many countries so would have to start again at ST1 or IMT1.

And don't worry they are going at the end of foundation training, and yes Consultants are going too. We can't manage without either of those groups!

Aclouise · 11/05/2023 21:58

Has anyone had a recent surgery? How long was your wait time from Pre op assessment. I was told a year wait when I asked but had my pre op a week ago after only waiting 1.5 months? I am waiting on thyroid removal for Graves’ disease