Is this the end for the NHS?

[Gigihadr]

Looking at the news I don’t really see how this healthcare crisis is going to be resolved.

Should I try and take out private healthcare insurance now? Is it possible to get seen in an emergency privately?

It seems like there aren’t going to be good doctors/ nurses left in the NHS as they seem to be all leaving in droves for NZ/ Aus. Hoping that at least some of the better ones will go into private healthcare and thinking better to sign up sooner rather than get caught ill with nowhere to turn to.

Its the best thing that’s ever happened to this country.

Its been failed by corruption & greed.

People who think you can pay as you go with healthcare are deluded. Ask America.

Im not sure where everyone thinks the Drs and nurses will come from to treat you privately; they won’t be getting the fees you’re paying, they’ll be in a shittier system with shittier T&Cs. Hedge funds will be taking the extra money, not the Drs.

We have the second lowest Dr per head of population in Europe.

You get what you pay for. We pay peanuts per capita compared to almost every other western democracy. And complain when the service can't deliver the best.

Healthcare is expensive and health inflation massively outstrips other forms of inflation.

I don't know what the solution is. But privatisation does not benefit patients. Unless you are wealthy, low risk and easy to treat.

I've just left medicine. I couldn't carry on as there was no way I could deliver a service that I was happy with in the current system and it was destroying me. I was dedicated, cared too much, and very experienced.... I was good at my job and loved what it could have been. I never want to do it again. I don't owe the NHS anything, I was broken by it for 25 years. I'm not emigrating, I'm doing low skill minimum wage jobs because to be honest NO amount of pay would get me back into medicine.

It needs culture over haul, management over haul. Everything.

It's appalling.

It needs tweaking now. We have the worst cancer survival rates. We so pay for the NHS. Do we want to die?

I can't stand it being used as political football.
It needs proper interventions now and it needs random nurses chosen by the hundreds to give anonymous honest views.
The man who ran my dad's dying ward was like a fucking gangster.

If everyone goes private won't there be similar issues as there isn't enough staff to deal with it all?

Private health insurance very unlikely to cover pre-existing conditions, chronic conditions, preventative care, maternity, emergency, gp, dental.

Well dental is pretty irrelevant since most people can't get NHS dental treatment anyway

The Uk really needs to invest in primary care and encourage doctors to become GP’s. The evidence is that with one doc to care for you too are healthier and less likely to die.
The speed of progress in medicine is very rapid… when I trained in medicine someone with a heart attack was put in Coronary Care, given morphine and oxygen ( we now know oxygen makes the outcome worse ) and ( only if they met very strict criteria) given a clot dissolving medicine. If you have a heart attack now you are mostly taken straight away to cardiac lab, dye injected and stents put in… you do a hell of a lot better but it’s very very expensive!
I am a GP in NZ, and although things are worsening (difficulty recruiting GP’s, decreased pay) it’s a lot better ..we are funded to give IV antibiotics, tone able to send bloods in a taxi and get results in 2 hrs, to be able to order scans/Xrays/CT same day if it helps manage people in community and keep them out hospital. It makes the job more interesting and saves money.

I highly recommend going private to cover you for new conditions and GP access. I called my insurer on a Thursday for authorisation. On the following Monday, I saw a leading consultant and had all my tests. It was amazing during lockdown when I needed surgery.

Saying that, my dad has had excellent and very fast care at Salford Royal for GI issues. I called them up to see him and they did within 3 days, CT scan done and results within a week.

I had that also during lockdown - saw surgeon on Tuesday had all the tests - surgery on Friday all went well. Local NHS hospital.
People never notice when NHS treatment goes well - but will still moan (they say food was awful but then get family to bring in McDonald's or kfc😂).

It's not a problem you can buy your way out of - private healthcare in the UK is very limited and won't deal with anything you might need a and e, or even really minor injuries for. It's basically useful to jump the queue for planned operations and to get second opinions on things.

In general, once you have any kind of chronic condition, insurance companies in the UK will refuse to insure you.

This is the problem with people saying we can just reform the NHS - so much private infrastructure would need to be created, and the people to staff it just don't exist. Any sort of plan needs to be really long term and would involve a lot of investment. So we may as well invest in the NHS, as it's already there and pre covid was functioning.

Of course it doesn't help our health secretary works for an investment firm with a private healthcare branch...

Benenden really helped me last year. It was 18 weeks wait for an ultrasound with the NHS but they got me one the following week.

It then said needed an MRI to clarify, this was done within 2 weeks and then saw a consultant to discuss a couple of weeks later.

Without it I would possibly have now had the ultrasound who knows. Thankfully nothing urgent was found anyway.

... and this is what the fucking Tory cunts want .. it's taken a long time but they have achieved their aims.. they have made the NHS so awful that people are asking 'should we go private ' ???

I sat this as someone who lost BOTH parents in the last month through lack of care. Not care that people didn't want to give but were unable to give due to the diabolical management and funding ..

Starting with insufficient training places for doctors . Fucking with consultants pensions /earnings and stupid ducking BREXIT .. if ANYONE truly believed a Tory government would put £350 m a week into a SOCIALIST health system then you are imbeciles !!

So this is where we are at .. no money to pay people who have studied and sacrificed since the age of 7 to be doctors but can give their mates £mmm to invent ppe that was never delivered ??

Don't fall for it .. we should be protesting on the street to protect the NHS it is precious. Don't let these greedy self serving bastards destroy it .

Totally agree we should be protesting on the street about what is happening but the general public seem to be disinterested and are just sitting back and taking it

We can't sit back and let them do it - the French wouldn't sit back
The same is happening with state schools - lack of funding and the staff will end up leaving - parents will send their children to private schools - who again cherry pick the most academic and hardworking.
Hopefully we only have eighteen months of this incompetent bunch who are only in it for their own interests. Unfortunately any incoming government will have so much shit to deal with before they can start making improvements.

If I could afford private insurance now I’d get it; if I needed a hip or something I’d just use my savings. I’m very lucky that our GP service locally is fabulous, and for real emergencies the NHS is still great, but for long term niggles or stuff that can wait they are truly f&%$ed. And don’t get me started about teeth.

I don’t expect it to improve much in my lifetime if at all, which is going to be about 25 years.

Don't the French have a system where they pay or have insurance?

The reason the nhs is like this is because of this government. In 2010 it was voted the best health service in the world. That’s 13 years ago. What else happened 13 years ago?🤔

It can be great again with the right funding.

You conveniently forget the chancellors note to the new Tory gov saying the coffers were empty

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-note-successor

😂 yeah sure l remember it😂

I’m fucked with my on going health issues 🤷‍♀️

I have private cover with DH’s work but they won’t cover existing health issues so only new ones. However I can see a Gp within a few hours

As others have said private hospitals dont see emergencies, they only do the simple/low risk procedures. The minute anything gets complicated people are transferred back to NHS which is how they make so much money.

But you're right it is broken. I don't imagine we will ever implement a fair fix that works. I've no faith that even if we'd ever implement any of the better systems in use elsewhere in more functional healthcare services across the world that benefits anyone but the richest. Lets face it all that would happen would be exactly the same hospitals and staff, the same procedures and lists, just an added load of private insurance companies on top who decide what services/procedures we're allowed to access - they take additional billions out of the system, NI/taxes remain the same but we have to now pay additional private health cover as well, waiting lists only improve because the insurance companies won't allow any poor people to get any treatment - people won't see their GP if costs them £40-100 a visit, if the premiums they can barely afford go up (like car insurance no one dares claim for minor damage it's just there for injury compensation/write offs), no fancy drugs, no fertility treatment, restricted/delayed access any chemo/radio for anyone not earning a decent income. It's what's clearly going to happen.

So if you're currently in a position where you have enough money that it really wouldn't be any bother to add 1-3+ thousand pounds a year to each member of the households expenses then it'll be wonderful because there won't be waiting lists for you. Or if you own one of these insurance companies who don't actually make anything or treat anyone, only job is to restrict access to healthcare and make billions for doing so. For the rest of us there won't be the waiting list, just the acceptance of making do and not being allowed on the list to start with, or the crippling debt when you need to pay the bills following a collapse in the street with an MI and had emergency treatment, or the birth went wrong and needed a ecs.

I often hear that note brought up like it's supposed to mean something! Does any government run at a surplus? Surely it was just a private joke between professionals.

It's just gutter journalism that story, anyone writing it knew the intent but it's twisted to mean something that it doesn't to distract - "example as to how a fundamental service has been driven into the ground by individuals effectively stealing billions from it, causing thousands of extra deaths and untold pain and suffering for many more..." Aha but the last government left a silly note so there....

I’m in Aus, moved here 15 years ago. Had both children in NHS.
When I went for a scan recently in Aus and I was chatting to the nurse who had just moved over from UK, she said there is so much wastage in the NHS. She was the only one in the room with me, and on the NHS for the same thing, there would be three.

We went into austerity measures so seems there was no money