Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

1000 replies

TheColourofspring · 14/04/2023 06:56

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
Scyla · 14/04/2023 08:44

It's left wing people that run the terrible services.
NHS, schools, universities, civil service, all left wing.

They deliver poor services. The standards you get are what left wing people can manage.

Much of left wing Europe is the same.

I suppose OP doesn't mind tax dodgers if they are Spanish!

MarshaBradyo · 14/04/2023 08:44

Hardbackwriter · 14/04/2023 08:38

One is a recognition that we used to be a major economic power with a seat at the table of world decision making and that this has been eroded by poor government decision making (within our lifetimes). Those of us who are old enough to have been voting adults during the Blair era know that while that administration was very far from perfect it was a time where the UK had an enviable economy, functioning public services and global respect. It has none of these today. And this is totally self-inflicted. It's not all Brexit, but Brexit is responsible for the lion's share of this.

But this is exactly what I mean about the exceptionalism expectations of where we 'should' be. Our historic 'seat at the table' was a legacy of colonialism (and basically sheer luck in sharing a language with the biggest superpower). Absolutely we therefore should have clung onto the benefits the EU brought - I voted remain, and was devastated by the result - but it was inevitable and probably correct that we had to become less globally influential as a nation.

I find the post quoted a bit misty eyed. Blair followed the US, the war was a good example. He wasn’t leading decisions.

I don’t see much difference now, we’re in new security pacts and so on

The world is changing though BRICS is overtaking G7 so some of this western domination will go.

MooseBreath · 14/04/2023 08:44

I am not British and moved here at 20 years old. My entire adult life in the UK has been run by a Tory government. The UK is absolutely worse than most European countries. Loads of people in this country appear to live in either ignorance or an extreme state of denial.

Many people spout that the UK is overcrowded. And yes, it seems that way, but that's because of a huge lack of investment in infrastructure. There aren't enough schools, but it's not the government's priority to build more. There aren't enough hospitals, but it's not the government's priority to build more. There isn't enough housing, but it's not the government's priority to build more.

We have a huge shortage of teachers and medical staff, but that's because working conditions and pay is shit. People with skills for those jobs leave the UK for places where they would be treated with respect. It is a low wage economy in the UK, which means even those doing skilled labour earn peanuts and struggle financially with student loans, astronomical utility bills, and sky-high rents. There is no incentive to work in these much needed jobs.

This will likely piss off a lot of posters, but many British people tend to be less prepared to get their hands dirty and actually work than their European counterparts. It's easier not to work and live on benefits than it is to work in fields or unsociable hours. Many people think they are "above" working blue collar jobs and instead apply for work that is oversubscribed when there would be work readily available as a cleaner or in McDonald's.

Our unemployment rate is low, but it includes people on zero hours contracts, working extremely part-time, and working for far less than a living wage. Just because people are "in work" doesn't mean they are being adequately compensated for their labour or even being given work to do.

The Tories have bled the country dry with austerity, mismanagement of the economy, Brexit, ignorance of a pandemic, and apathy towards the vast majority of the population. The UK is a shitshow. It is not this bad in many other countries.

And before someone tells me to fuck off back to my home country if it's so much better (which it undeniably is), I am.

proppy · 14/04/2023 08:46

@Simonjt don't waste your time, I mean it's not like rape or violence is an issue here.

Sometimeswinning · 14/04/2023 08:46

Thepeopleversuswork · 14/04/2023 07:08

So the French riot, we sit on our arses and shrug and say "it can't be as bad as all that". That's all hunky dory then. Nothing to see here.

I wish people would stop saying: "oh but all countries have their problems". Of course all countries have their problems. We have no power to change the situation in France. We do have it in our gift to do something about the UK.

Show quote history

I could swear there are multiple protests going on at the moment! It's very easy to sit and moan to your keyboard but there are people who want to make change.

Unfortunately, we have alot of moaners in this country who refuse to see that and would rather dwell at their own pity party!

Simonjt · 14/04/2023 08:46

begoneday · 14/04/2023 08:18

Look at crime statistics. The UK does extremely well. You may not feel safe but objectively you are safer than in many other countries. How many people do you know that are victims of violent crime ? I bet not many

My last reply to this was incomplete for some reason, I’ll try again. Have a friend right now needing elbow surgery, I’ve had a broken nose and ribs, my husband has been pushed into the road, I have a friend suffer a severe brain injury who now has to live in a care home, I’ve had friends lose their lives, all due to violent crime.

Sconesandgravy · 14/04/2023 08:47

stickybear · 14/04/2023 07:15

I feel like the state of the roads could be what finally wakes middle England up to the disaster of more than a decade of austerity. I live in a fairly wealthy area of the south west and the pot holes are horrendous, and inescapable. They're on every road. People who may not have been affected by other cuts in spending and may even have been cheerleaders for austerity are suddenly seeing a very visible sign of what it has done to the country as a whole. Our infrastructure is literally crumbling.

I'm also in a fairly wealthy area in the South West... Rhymes with Heaven.
The roads are hell. A pot hole caught us out and nearly tipped the car yesterday 🫠. A friend lost a tyre last week as well.

Scyla · 14/04/2023 08:48

proppy · 14/04/2023 08:34

It’s linked to the fact we have such inequalities in this country. It was like this before Brexit. The gap between the rich and the poor is very wide in the UK and this leads to poor services and poor health in general.

This is exactly it.

How exactly?

People are obese because the rich people don't pop round and cook them a healthy meal?

Or the rich don't pay for Jamie Oliver to do it?

AintNobodyHateMeBetter · 14/04/2023 08:48

Yep France and Spain are perfect. We'll just ignore the constant strikes and current rioting and mile high bin piles there atm.

MarshaBradyo · 14/04/2023 08:48

Simonjt · 14/04/2023 08:15

So do we, which is why we decided leaving the UK was what we needed to do.

Show quote history

It’s great you’re going. Hopefully you’ll be happier there. Sweden wouldn’t be for me.

I don’t get the need to put down where others do want to live. Countries can be good for people in different ways.

proppy · 14/04/2023 08:49

There aren't enough schools, but it's not the government's priority to build more.

Certainly in London there is dearth of primary school places which is going to have huge ramifications as funding is based on headcount's. Not enough investment in dc so of course the birth rate has dropped but the DM readers still think the issue is single mums trotting out 5 babies for a council house.

"London Councils’ new report shows there is a predicted 7.6 per cent decrease in reception pupil numbers across London from 2022-23 to 2026-27. This means 96,424 reception pupils today will decline to 89,121 by September 2026, roughly equivalent to a decrease of 243 classes across the city."

AintNobodyHateMeBetter · 14/04/2023 08:49

It's nice going on holiday and having rose-tinted glasses on.

proppy · 14/04/2023 08:50

"People are obese because the rich people don't pop round and cook them a healthy meal?"

"Or the rich don't pay for Jamie Oliver to do it?"

Is this serious? I can't engage with stupidity, here is the proof of the decline in education standards!

usedtobeasizeten · 14/04/2023 08:50

Bon Voyage!!

Noras · 14/04/2023 08:51

So saying, I voted remain and think that Brexit was a self inflicted wound. We would be far better now within Europe so I’m pretty irked. Not sure that Labour has agree to put us back in Europe and no one seems to want to vote Liberal. People’s notion is that the better off should pay more tax but believe it or not that’s not a solution - we have pretty high tax rates. Where is all the money going? I’m also hacked off by the extreme wealthy (multimillionaires ) who don’t pay tax. No party ever gets them as they just change jurisdictions as necessary. The tax take for high earners in the system and therefore fully accountable for all earnings is quite high and moreover with fewer benefits such as income linked state pension not sure why that is.

Flowerly · 14/04/2023 08:51

Simonjt · 14/04/2023 08:41

I’d be doing more research on the UKs essential legalisation of rape if I were you, I’d also be looking at gang violence and gun crime in London, Birmingham, Manchester, Nottingham, Liverpool, Glasgow and county lines.

Show quote history

I am very well aware of this - I am no big fan of the UK and its cities. I was merely pointing out that Sweden is not exactly a utopia either.

proppy · 14/04/2023 08:52

We'll just ignore the constant strikes and current rioting and mile high bin piles there atm.

There are strikes here you know...

Newbutoldfather · 14/04/2023 08:52

A lot of wealthy people on here want to blame all our problems on Brexit because, conveniently, it is the one issue that is both bad economically and bad personally.

The UK has a number of problems including a rapacious financial sector which is a tax on the rest of the economy, far too little money spent on health and education (except for private schools who can afford to cherry pick the best teachers) and a ridiculous concentration of wealth in non-productive property.

We could improve things a lot by imposing a proper annual property tax rather than stamp duty, which penalises divorce and mobility and raising interest rates to a sensible level relative to inflation. And keeping them there. That would allow us to properly focus on investing in health and, most importantly, education for all and genuine social mobility.

Wittering on about Erasmus and working in Europe when adult illiteracy is at 15% and many have never even travelled outside their own region is very Marie Antoinettish to me..

Dibbydoos · 14/04/2023 08:52

Brexit isn't the cause of anything, the government not implementing what was needed to smooth the exit is.

France, Spain, Germany etc all had processes mapped out to help the transition, but no our government didn't want to implement brexit so here we are. BJ spouting of let's get it done was propaganda.

We are in the shit because of our government. Please hold the right people accountable not a public vote, as much as that decision might rub.

BTW things are going to get worse as the dollar collapses. I can't get my head around oil no longer being priced by the dollar, but the Biden saying what he said about Saudi has pissed the wrong people off.

BertieBotts · 14/04/2023 08:52

LabradorsByTheSea · 14/04/2023 07:16

I’m afraid I agree, and I’ve always hated threads doing down the UK as there’s so much that’s good about it. It’s heartbreaking.

But we are back to being the sick man of Europe once again. I keep trying to explain to my children that’s it’s happened before and we will recover, hopefully just in time for their twenties (although one is looking at European universities).

Yes, other European countries have their problems, but anyone who has spent time visiting our neighbours in the last couple of years can see the massive decline in public services and infrastructure here, compared with France, Germany, Scandinavia (and yes, even Spain and Italy). You’d have to live an exceptionally insular existence not to be alert to the difference.

Day to day, we have a lovely life, because we are wealthy so can spend our way out of poor public services and live in a strong village community, but the roads are still full of potholes and we still notice price rises, and how much others local to us are struggling. Last week we were at MIL’S house and the streets were strewn with rubbish- in St John’s Wood, one of the ‘nicest’ parts of London.

This is encouraging (the idea that it will recover) - all I ever see is doom and gloom! You say by the time your children are in their 20s, what kind of time scale would you guess? And when has it happened before and got better?

Irequireausername · 14/04/2023 08:52

The NHS needs totally changing. It needs to be more insurance based or pay-in based like so many other countries.

As we're on the topic of spain, their health service is tied to your contributions from your job. I.e if you're a foreigner and don't work, you can't use their public health service. It should be obvious, but apparently Brits don't accept this for some reason.

The UK is a land of extremists, taking everything too far and ruining it.

Noras · 14/04/2023 08:53

Stating the obvious but the UK will have more potholes than say France or Italy as we do have worse weather - it is linked to rain and ice etc.

Hoppinggreen · 14/04/2023 08:54

proppy · 14/04/2023 08:42

As soon as the DC have finished their education we are leaving, which we can actually do thanks to DHs EU passport.

I didn't realise this @Hoppinggreen, I thought all adults needed EU passports.

No, I can stay longer than the 90 days if I am with DH. After 2 years in his EU country I can get citizenship too

PaperSheet · 14/04/2023 08:54

I love how in one breath people say the UK population needs to accept a later retirement to help fund the UK and its ridiculous that people expect to retire at 67 as its far too young. But France riots over a later retirement age and its what we should be doing.

Notonthestairs · 14/04/2023 08:55

Noras · 14/04/2023 08:53

Stating the obvious but the UK will have more potholes than say France or Italy as we do have worse weather - it is linked to rain and ice etc.

There is quite a bit of rain, ice & snow there too! ⛷️

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In
This thread is not accepting new messages.