To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

Oh, and running water!! Tunbridge Wells was without running water for an entire week just before Xmas because the systems have been left to fall into total disrepair. And people were queuing for two hours in the cold to get emergency bottled water.

Look at crime statistics. The UK does extremely well. You may not feel safe but objectively you are safer than in many other countries. How many people do you know that are victims of violent crime ? I bet not many

If anything, the French have the right idea and I don’t know why we’re not doing the same. As a PP said, it’s probably because we’re like boiling frogs. We’ve been gaslit and lied to for so long we don’t know what’s real and what’s a product of contemptuous bully boy politics or dog whistle shit rags like the Daily Heil any more. What would it be like to have a government with some integrity? I don’t even mind if I don’t agree with them. I’d just like to feel they had the country’s and not their own best interested at heart. Even just sometimes would do.

I would be doing a bit more research on Stockholm's rape crisis and the rise in gang violence, gun crime etc. All is not always as it seems.

Turn off the news every now and again and you will see a change in your view of the UK. I refuse to be bombarded by the constant drip feed of fear and anger that the media seem to want to cultivate.

@Hardbackwriter

'We're the shittest at everything' (in the face of the actual evidence) is just as exceptionalist a mindset as 'we're the best at everything' (in the fact of the actual evidence).

I don't think it's so much "we're the shittest at everything", although I do recognise what you say about exceptionalism. I don't think we're the shittest at anything by a long chalk. I've thought for a long time that we're a fairly average country which does really well at some things and badly at others.

But two critical things have changed for me in the past ten years which I am really appalled by and can't tolerate.

One is a recognition that we used to be a major economic power with a seat at the table of world decision making and that this has been eroded by poor government decision making (within our lifetimes). Those of us who are old enough to have been voting adults during the Blair era know that while that administration was very far from perfect it was a time where the UK had an enviable economy, functioning public services and global respect. It has none of these today. And this is totally self-inflicted. It's not all Brexit, but Brexit is responsible for the lion's share of this.

Two: above all else the point of having a government at its most basic level is to safeguard the lives of citizens. When a health service funded out of general taxation is so poor that people fear they might die due to its shortcomings, government is not doing its most basic job.

Also we can't change other countries. We can change ourselves. Perspective is important but is often used as an excuse to shrug and carry on. It's true that Spain has a shockingly high unemployment rate and that there are riots and major social unrest in France. But that doesn't mean we're alright Jack. It seems to be a kind of race to the bottom whereby someone says "the UK feels bad right now" and someone else tips up to say "at least you're not in North Korea." Comparisons with other poor scenarios should not blind us to the fact that things are not as they should be.

I think there’s a lot of grass is greener. In Italy my cousin amply qualified can’t get a certain job because the director gave it to his daughter. Family live modesty saving everything for their wedding. They don’t buy as much throwaway fashion but good quality pieces. They take care of their council houses and clean them inside and out. They garden the council surrounding grounds of their flats and sweep the corridors. There is a sense of community. They make things prettier with plant pots and plants. They pay far lower tax and virtually no IHT so it’s a millionaires dream from that point of view but they have a huge national debt. But yes the roads aren’t so pot holed.

@Dibblydoodahdah

Spain has an unemployment rate of 12.87 compared with 3.7% in the UK.

Well yes, our employment is at record levels in the UK.

How many of the jobs are with zero hour contracts where there is no guarantee what the employee will be paid from week to week?

How many of those jobs require to be proper up by benefits such as universal credit?

How many of those jobs are secure enough and pay well enough to find decent housing?

But yeah, by all means let us congratulation ourselves on record levels of employment rather than a decent standard of living.

What’s the population of Sweden - 10 million? If you look at the countries with 10 million people and under the developed ones ( no wars or corruption) look pretty organised. Compared to the ones at top of the population chart that all have identifiable issues on transport, schools, litter etc.

It's true, there's a lot of denial about it though for some strange reason.

Again I feel safe where I live.

Isn't Sweden very expensive to live in?

Went skiing in France at Feb half term, the place was full of dog poo on the pavements, put me off going back there. It's not just the UK

So do I. Aren’t we both lucky

The Uk is was too overcrowded, our services are on knees as they can't cope with sheer volume of people.

🙄

Yes, I have always thought that we are a nation of slobs compared to other countries. It's always someone else's fault and no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions. Dropped rubbish? Someone else will pick it up for me.

Other places are not perfect as has been noted in some responses. However I agree that the UK has got a great deal worse for the basics just happening and working. Also a longer term trend in the UK for a lack of personal respect in appearance, very noticeably different when I go abroad.

Low wages are common in Italy as there is no minimal pay which makes zero hour contracts with minimum pay seem quite advantageous.

All I know is that from rich to poor my family think that the UK is heaps better. They have corruption, poor services and unaffordable national debt.

Sometimes sunshine and blue skies might make you think that things are better but poverty can just be more picturesque in Southern European countries.

Taking comparisons with other countries out of the mix.

I can see the difference between public services now, and public services say 15 years ago. I can see how run down stuff is compared to the recent past and I know I have been waiiting a year for a scan but back it 2006 i waited about 3 weeks.

So maybe it is inevitable decline and the whole of the west is experiencing it but there is a decline. Is britain handling the decline better than our neighbours. I dont think so because I think austerity meant there was no resilience in the system when hard times hit.

That said, it's so laughable when people declare that everywhere else is better and they know because they've been there:

Some of us are from other countries or have friends & family still there or from there.

Yep good at expecting others to do it and then moaning when they don’t.

So maybe it is inevitable decline and the whole of the west is experiencing it but there is a decline. Is britain handling the decline better than our neighbours. I dont think so because I think austerity meant there was no resilience in the system when hard times hit.

There is a general western decline particularly looking at population dynamics however there has been no investment here which as you say means no resilience.

I'm half Irish, have relatives there, relatives and friends in France and friends with relatives in Germany so I'm not 'just a misty eyed tourist'!

How much knowledge do those suggesting that every other country is in the same situation as the UK actually have or are they wishful Telegraph or Daily Fail readers who rarely leave these shores and when they do, go on cruise ships or guided tours?

I'm just off to France tomorrow, I'll look out for the unhappy people, empty shelves in shops, pot holded roads and I'll chat to a few locals and tell them about the booming, pristine UK, should be good for a laugh.

Nope. This country has fallen to the wolves. It's an absolute shit show compared to a few years ago. Underfunded public services for over a decade. Every road is pot holed. Getting anything into the country now is so much harder (and I have first hand experience with my job) - including medicines and medical supplies. A broken healthcare system. Surgeons who are all working so hard as they plan to leave early. Not enough junior doctors hence the strike this week. An aging population - many of whom don't have enough pension provision and who will need nursing care with zero means to pay. An education system that focuses on English and maths with limited provision for children who would thrive in other areas. School day doesn't tally with full time work for two working parents. Behavioural issues across an increasingly higher % of children than in the past. 28% obesity and the cheapest food isn't the healthy food. We are fucked.

It’s linked to the fact we have such inequalities in this country. It was like this before Brexit. The gap between the rich and the poor is very wide in the UK and this leads to poor services and poor health in general.
The gap between the richest 20 per cent and the poorest 20 per cent is much greater in the UK and USA compared to Sweden, Netherlands, Spain, etc.

The population is also growing at a fast rate. But that’s a separate issue.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:How_much_richer_are_the_richest_20_per_cent_than_the_poorest_20_per_cent%3F.jpg

http://www.progressfocused.com/2010/02/spirit-level-book-review.html