To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

Yes indeed. Totally agree with this^^

I wish someone could explain to me how it has been allowed to happen.

Take water for example.

Surely there are regulations and checks in place?

What has OFWAT been doing?

What has the relevant gov dept been doing?

If laws have been broken why isn’t the judiciary involved?

Can anyone explain this please?

Water is actually a difficult one. When it was privatised in the 1990s, it was clearly stated that the industry needed much more capital spend and investment than the Treasury could fund to renew the network. So the privatisation was sold on that basis, and not many UK pension fund investors were keen. But it had awesome cash flow, and overseas pension funds bought in big time, to get rewards that they were not permitted in their domestic/home markets. With control, they brought in malleable management teams and incentivised them to prioritise shareholder interests, and dividends, above consumer and customer interests. And here we are.

The last post was for @Argyllsocks567 . I hope it's helpful. I think it was a stupid policy, but not a malicious raid.

Thanks EffortlessDesmond that makes sense. I mean I don’t understand how the initial privatisation was allowed to go ahead on that basis, but it makes the current situation more understandable.

Are there no legal remedies for all of the leakages and wastage, and for the pollution of beaches and rivers though ? Are they still within the law? And if so, surely we need a law change?

Also what about regulation governing how much profit shareholders are allowed to syphon off when it comes to essential public services?

Who is speaking up for the consumer in all of this?

agree 100%, the regulatory system has been rigged in favour of big business, by both parties, Blair didn't deal with regulation when he had the chance either.

R4 reported today that the UK's ftse 350 index of britains richest companies has seen profits/dividends sky rocket since Covid......

They also highlighted that the Govt is very keen to stand up to Dr's and Nurses (on pay demands) who are then quitting to move abroad, so what happens to the NHS then? its the same in teaching.

People bang on about the wealthy leaving the UK if taxes went up but how does the country even function with a health or education sector?

I wish I had some insight to offer on this. There's an interesting article about why the UK is so badly managed in today's FT Edit, by Robert Shrimsley, which is probably a reasonable assessment of the problems, but short on answers. You may be able to read it as one free article via the website, if you're not a subscriber.

Regulation has been allowed to become a cosy revolving door between the regulators and the regulated. It is insidious institutional capture and the light touch approach which was deemed essential to avoid inhibiting innovation quickly becomes a lack of competence, then slackness at best, or corruption at worst. Unfortunately, the people with the understanding and knowledge to regulate complex industries well and fiercely are usually paid multiples of civil service salaries on the poacher's side of the fence.

@Argyllsocks567 , everyone knew that the water companies needed to spend a fortune when it was privatised, especially Thames Water. What was needed was nothing less than construction of a whole second network infrastructure to cope with population growth and increased demands.

Just think of all the washing machines and dishwashers and power showers that hadn't been invented when the original systems were built for starters. Then try doing that underground beneath one of Europe's largest cities. NIMBYism blocked the construction of massive new reservoirs around the South East.

What was needed was a civil engineering programme that would have been five or 10 times the scale of HS2 and EuroTunnel/Eurostar combined so small wonder that it fell into the too difficult pile. By privatising the problem, the government of the day (Tory) just booted it into the long grass and desperately hoped that a magical unicorn would appear.

Yes we ve an ancient infrastructure but what about all the millions of new houses built since privatisation?
Planning rules ensured the same infrastructure was built, where as we could have been building a modern sewage system over the last 40 years.

In my locality, the local sewage works was last upgraded in the 70s, 1000s of new houses built since then, sewage treated in exactly the same way. storm drains used routinely, regardless of rainfall, into an AONB river.

Legislation ensures even the water companies or the EA cannot stop housing development, they just have to deal with the aftermath.

I'm not apologising for the failure of planning to recognise the shortcomings of the Victorian infrastructure @Alexandra2001, although they should have been as plain as the nose on my face, but I do think the planning approvals haven't held the feet of developers close enough to the fire. It is quite appalling that 1000 homes have been built along the road you are referring to without serious attention to upgrading the infrastucture. Health centre? Snowed under. Schools, primary and secondary, likewise. Build the houses, pack em in tight and close... Don't let me get started.

And, Alexandra, that particular river has recovered well since 1805-1845, when it was considered even more desperately polluted than any other in Europe. I wouldn't choose to swim in it if there was a sea water alternative though.

The unsayable is that population growth is the issue. Governments chase growth. There are no votes in a platform that tells the electorate your life will be worse and more uncomfortable.

Shh! You'll disturb the group think. Everyone knows we are the shittiest country in the history of ever and no other countries have any serious issues. It's just established fact🙄

/Remain voter before you all jump.

Oh i don't know about that!

Didn't Hunt tell us recently a recession is the way fwd and Bailey said we need to have a lower standard of living? (not him obviously)

YANBU, just came back from holiday in Poland. Everything is so well maintained and so clean! Lovely well equipped parks for children, cheaper food and amazing, affordable public transport. We frequently travelled on buses and trains... The cost of a one way local trip for a child was 60p! It is the public transport that got me the most, and how wrong we got it in the UK. I then found out that bus fares within the local area for children who live there were free. We desperately need an overhaul to encourage public transport use to save the environment.

Have to agree with much of the sentiment here.

Don't just moan about it, remember next year to vote.

I can only comment on what’s visible when visiting other countries on holidays so on a surface level I would definitely agree that Britain does seem a lot dirtier, the roads are worse and the food is over processed and unhealthy. I don’t know how jobs, education and healthcare compare though, I think it’s hard to tell on a short visit. As for the dog poo, it must be a thing because everytime I go somewhere I notice how little there is! Slovenia was spotless! I remember getting off the train in Brighton after visiting Italy and it feeling like I was wading though piss, sick and poo, it was absolutely disgusting in comparison.

Nothing especially profound to add OP, but we are currently travelling around southern Germany and Austria, and everything you say rings true. Everything works, everything’s clean and in good condition and the local people in the main (children in particular) look markedly happier and healthier than at home.

My first degree was in Modern Languages and I was lucky enough to experience a year abroad as part of that. Ever since then I’ve wished that British people travelled more widely to ‘workaday’ places, rather than theme park-like holiday resorts, to gain real perspective on how ordinary people in comparable countries live. It can be very eye opening.

We thought the same about Holland, Belgium and France, I think only Italy is worse.

I went to Florida for a holiday - immaculate - I saw one cigarette end in the whole week and it was by a drain outside a pub. No litter, wonderful wildlife.
where I live the cut back in using weedkiller on pavement edges and the green ?algae due to milder ,wetter weather, on building walls-let alone cut back in street sweepers
means the place is a dump!

Why would so many people from Poland want to live here (or other countries) if its so great though? My Polish friend lived in the UK for 15 years. Yes she's left now, but she's gone to Spain. She has no plans to go back to Poland as in her opinion here and Spain are better.
Most countries get some things worse and some things better. Just because Poland is cleaner and public transport cheaper doesn't mean its much better (or worse in other areas) than the UK. There's obviously areas that the UK is better at and that's why some people want to live here.

I think it might be our class system which is still big in the U.K. Which means many of the lower classes feel disenfranchised so have no obligation to keep streets clean or tidy, no responsibility to eg sweep up outside their house - our drinking culture doesn’t help either.

Poland was going to change abortion laws, not in favour of women. I’m not sure if this happened.

Totally agree OP, also also agree with @TempsPerdu that most British people probably haven’t experienced ‘everyday Europe’, only major tourist places. Having spent a lot of time in 3 different EU countries I can say that their general standard of living is much much higher. But the Brits don’t realise this!

The main reason for Poles coming to the UK was higher wages. However, this gap is slowly closing and many Poles returned home after Brexit.
I am not saying that Poland is better, the government seems very conservative and backwards. Why can't we have a sustainable, affordable public transport in the UK though, surely that is something that would help the environment.
Privatisation has a lot to answer for.

Ha ha! I love Europe but I call this the "TGV blinkers". We all see articles bemoaning the UKs trains and wondering why they can't be wonderfully efficient like France - usually written by someone who got a TGV to Avignon once.

TGVs are indeed a marvel and I wish we had such a network in the UK. However local French trains are often just as mad as UK ones.

Last month in France we experienced - a train that inexplicably sat at the station for 20 mins after its scheduled departure - not a peep as to the cause of the delay or shen it might depart, a train between the small town we were staying at to the nearest city that was so overcrowded people had to cling on to avoid falling out when the doors opened and finally the perennially mad provincial train timetables - we were in a reasonably sized city and trains to popular beach towns just 10 or so KM away only departed every two hours and ceased at 8pm. This wasn't a Sunday or holiday service - this was peak time week days!

That said buses were only 1 euro!