To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

[TheColourofspring]

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy.

Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need.

I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer.

In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people.

I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is.

Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

The reason we don't have maths until 18 is that we don't have enough teachers. The ones we do have are underpaid. Sunak can actually do something about this or he can make speeches. Seriously, it's like he's in opposition- get on with it and start by sorting out wages.

Lex agreed!

More maths isn't going to hurt & probably will help but there is a hell of a lot of stuff that needs fixing first!

So we waste resources on people who are going into careers that don't require A level maths? (Which is the vast amount of careers)

Well done Sunak, talk about being out of touch.

There is sooooo much else wrong with our education system but lets have a nice little diversion.

I'm surprised that the PM wants young teens to be very good at maths ; surely they will become too good at working out how much they are being screwed over by the current government ?
He should be careful what he wishes for.

He doesn't, whether its childcare or maths, its all hot air, nothing will improve.

There isn't the means to provide either of the above and he knows it, just sounds like he is "Sorting the Peoples Priorities"

I was in Bucharest recently. I was struck upon returning home, at how run down the city I live in looks, how little pride in their appearance people take, in comparison to Bucharest.

And yet,you have just done ,what you have "cautioned " others not to do ,hypocrisy,much?

Yes.... an illustration that any picture can be found of anything anywhere which proves absolutely nothing. If I had used my picture as "proof" that Scotland in general is a dirty place, as PP seem to be doing for Paris, you would have a point.

Didn´t think it needed spelling out.

It looks like Edinburgh. Was it during the Fringe?

For everyone mentioning riots & protests in other countries. Remember the Tories are trying to make protesting illegal. Someone, you won't be able to get a drs appt, find a decent school, afford to heat or eat and you won't be able to protest about any of it. While the poor get poorer, the fat cats get fatter and the middle are squeezed even tighter.

Haven't RTFT but having recently returned from
Japan I think citizens have a lot to do with it. Japan is clean and there are hardly any bins anywhere as people don't want to make a public mess - whereas here I am sure it would be thought that bins should be provided if a place is to be kept clean.

This is just one example. I think people in UK feel very entitled and don't take on responsibility for their own progress , aspirations and looking after their own families as it's all too easy to blame it on the government

Will read more of the thread now but has anyone discussed what labour's plans are for tacking the defects? As far as I know they don't actually have any strategies .......

@rattymol ah I didn’t realise that, my mistake, I obviously didn’t stick around long enough to see it descend into that. While I don’t agree with not being able to state facts about the offenders, I abhor the way any excuse to twist that information is often jumped on.

In Japan the culture is about the collective rather than individuals. It's an over simplification to talk about responsibility. And legally you have responsibility for your parents. Parents have taken adult children to court to enforce this.

Sounds like a Tory dream for Britain.

I wish we cared more about the collective, countries that do seem to do a lot better on the whole. It always surprises me that countries don't look at Scandinavia and they , why don't we adopt their policies. Instead we have an , it would never work here, attitude. Although, being forced to look after your parents doesn't seem right, I'm very much of the view that my children didn't ask to be born, they owe me nothing.

The second V. You can't counter that.

I agree op. It's shocking actually and it's not just European countries that are doing better.

One of thw things I find extremely concerning at the moment in the UK is the state of health care. I think this is something pretty basic that makes a huge difference to our lives.

I used to be a big proponent of the NHS. I still believe in the principle of it but it's obviously not working very well. Difficulties seeing your GP, too long waits at A n E and worse, for ambulances, having to wait months to see a specialist, etc

I was in India a few months ago and in one week we saw a pediatrician, an ophthalmologist, an endocrinologist and a pediatric pulmonary specialist for ds' increasingly worsening asthma. Oh and we had three sets of blood tests done and a full cardiac check up for dh. We go to India every few years and do whatever health checks are necessary (we have family there so it's not that strange. All our friends of Indian origin do this). This was in a big city and of course, not everyone has the same access to excellent health care or can afford it but a large part of the people actually can (lower middle class and up if I had to categorise). Seeing a specialist is about £60 or less. Where I live in the UK the closest pulmonary specialist (private) is about 80m away and specialises in geriatric patients. The doctors we saw in India are not Mickey mouse doctors. They know their stuff, are very knowledgeable and have tons of clinical experience. Oh and when ds had an asthma attack we also got seen at A n E within 30min of us arriving there and they didn't even charge us anything at all. It's the same with other facilities.

It's a growing economy unlike the UK and though I think we have learnt that unlimited growth is not sustainable at the moment if you have a half decent job life in India is definitely comfortable. I always said I want to live in a country where I can depend on the state to take care of everyone, or a country with a strong welfare system even if I'm less likely to use it than others but I like the principle of it. If it wasn't for the pollution (made ds asthma' grow crazy) and traffic I'd consider moving there. If the Tories win the next election I will definitely try to leave the UK. Ideologically and financially this country has been run to the ground.

Im.not sure India is a good example I mean it's great you can access good fairly cheap.health care ,but there will be an awful.lot of people who can't afford to.access any health care
The NHS, has many problems but it's still.free at the point of access .

I was in Delhi recently and was treated to the sight of street hospital where the poor had their festering wounds treated, some of which were green. Healthcare for some.

India has big issues of a different sort, and if you are worried about the treatment of women and girls then it's extremely patriarchal. Today its government is opposing same sex marriage. These are aren't societies that are compatible socially with mainstream Britain.

The point is that healthcare is available and that a large part of lower middle class and up can afford it. India has a very large number of very poor people so the total number of people who struggle to access or pay for healthcare is of course large but at the same time most people in permanent employment who live in a reasonably sized town will have access to affordable and quality health care. If I moved to India I would. If you moved there you would as well.

Also, there are free government hospitals in India. Free at the point of use. Very few people use them though as private is better and affordable.

I'm not sure the homeless in the UK have brilliant access to healthcare or anything else. Of course they could show up at a n e but across to a GP or anything else? Mental health? As I said above India has a very large very poor population and of course things aren't rosy there. If the UK had the same population the outcome for most people would be worse. People who are getting by in the UK (e.g. those whose kids don't qualify for free school meals) would have a higher standard of life in India under the same conditions (of employment, education, etc).

I find it interesting that you refuse to even consider the possibility that life in India could be more comfortable than in the uK for many. I understand it's difficult to get away from the first world / third world mentality that is ingrained in most of us. Of course there are problems in India but what they do have going for them is a growing economy and a large labour market.

I know how patriarchical it is having lived there and having family there and I don't agree with many social and political attitudes. Unlike many of my Indian friends I will not pretend that equality for women is as advanced as it is here. (Women can go far in India but there is more of a struggle though it depends a lot on the family and community you are dealing with).

My point is if we are talking about quality of life in terms of access to basic amenities (and especially access to luxuries) the UK is shocking even by the standards of a 3rd world country.

Well, I think it's fair to say poverty in India is nothing like Britain. If you ever want to feel grateful about your circumstances take a trip there, away from the endless luxury hotels, and very nice business people. The reason I am going there is the developing middle class, a huge market to come.

You can have a very nice life in India as a professional person provided you also accept that there will be limitations - it's just a lot less safe there as a woman, and those things aren't comparable to the UK. I would not live there because I could not live in the way that I can here.

That's not first world mentality, it's recognising that women are better off financially and mentally in such places.

As I said I have family there and so don't live in luxury accommodation and also considering that I have lived there I assume I have seen more of all aspects of India than you have.

You don't have to live there but I don't think there would be anything wrong with acknowledging where and how it does well and certainly better than the UK.

I do think that the fact that you cannot do this and insist that India cannot be more livable than the UK for a lot of people does show a first world mentality.

Even if you're not comparing Britain to other countries just comparing it Britain a decade ago living standards have fallen.
Food banks increased.
Homelessness increased
NHS waiting times increased
High street declined.
Libraries closed
Pot holes everywhere
All public services have seen for more than a decade are cuts now we all have to live with the consequences unless you're rich

Also, you'll find this funny (or possibly not) but I did tell some people about the state of the NHS here and it did make them grateful to not live in the UK.

Don't get me wrong. I like living here and that's why I do but unless people are capable of seeing where the UK does really badly and where other countries (even shock and horror third world countries like India) do much better nothing will ever change.