Page 19 | To think it’s shocking how bad Britain has fallen apart compared to other European counties

TheColourofspring · 2023-04-14T05:56:04+00:00

I am in Spain at the moment in one of the big cities. It’s clean, modern, well maintained. Transport is cheap, food is cheap, healthcare seems to work pretty well (from talking to local). Parks are noticeably well maintained- even saw park keepers! Clean & tidy. Pensions higher, if you lose your job you get a portion of your salary in unemployment benefits while you look for another and there are no penalties. Based on the premise that if you have paid in, you will get looked after if you are in need. I am not saying it’s perfect- no country is but it was the same when I was in France last summer. In Britain, everything is underfunded and close to the edge. Schools, the NHS, local authorities are all at breaking point. My local parks look shabby & there is very little maintenance. Roads have pot holes. Yesterday I read an article about pharmacies being the latest at ‘crisis’ point with major drug shortages (thanks to brexit). Queues at borders, people can’t heat or eat properly, food banks, housing is ridiculous for many people. I think it’s just so noticeable when you go to other places just how run down Britain is. Finding it shocking and a bit depressing - like I said, all countries have their issues but I think Britain really has been pillaged by the tories & Brexit really is a disaster.

Dibblydoodahdah · 14/04/2023 22:10

@StarDolphins crime rates are higher in France and Sweden. There are strikes across
Europe. Food prices are also increasing
throughout Europe. It’s medical
(and dental) care where we are genuinely inferior. But that won’t change as no party has the guts to get rid of the NHS.

suburbophobe · 14/04/2023 22:13

Sweden has mass killings and rapes.

You really can't throw that out there without giving some evidence i.e. a link or two @TodayInahurry

I read two country's news and have not come across that kind of sensationalist reporting. If true it would be all over the worldwide headlines I reckon.
I also have friends in Sweden.

Delectable · 14/04/2023 22:16

Well, by leaving the EU we get the opportunity to choose what we want, vote, make our own laws. Apart from the monarchy we're enjoying democracy and though we might be short of money, energy prices, food, transport and other basics are all expensive and going up we have a fantastic display of wealth to look forward to with the coronation which reminds us that we are actually very rich and our wealth is safely being kept by our hard working RF. This is what we voted for.
They work harder then any teacher, nurse, doctor, policeman, refuse collector etc you might know.

Justanotherlurker · 14/04/2023 22:19

StarDolphins · 14/04/2023 22:01

Things don’t work fine here though. No dentists, can’t see a Dr unless they ring you or you wait 3 weeks, A&E rammed. Food doubled on many items Services shut, pot holes everywhere, strikes pretty much every week, crime sky high. How is that fine?

it’s not drama caused by the media, it’s what is actually happening.

Show quote history

And the same and more can be transplanted into any EU country the UK isn't unique in going through issues, there is a lot of cherry picking that Europeans do with the UK and it is justified to highlight the issues we have here in the UK, but to think we are the backwater of Europe shows a stark lack of actual knowledge of what is actually happening in Europe and the rest of the world.

Delectable · 14/04/2023 22:20

Oh! I forgot! Our government are also very busy trying to solve the big puzzles that will put us ahead of other countries economically and healthwise; who is a woman and who is a man?

ClareBlue · 14/04/2023 22:40

begoneday · 14/04/2023 07:56

Go visit the slums in Paris where they put their immigrants and then tell me the UK is doing better. Go see how Muslim women are treated there if they want to wear their religious attire. We’re not doing particularly well here, but no where is at the moment.

And other urban areas in France. I have been to most European countries and their main cities and travel way outside the typical tourist areas, but the poverty and desperation 3 miles from the old port in Marsaille is on a level I have never seen anywhere else. And there are plenty of countries doing fine who are not in the EU, so it's not all about Brexit. Litter is nothing to do with Brexit or austerity or poverty. It's an attitude where people have no civic pride or respect for their environment. This attitude is definite more prevalent in some areas of UK.

suburbophobe · 14/04/2023 22:45

I'd certainly caution the idea that seems to be doing the rounds that the whole of France has been striking and rioting 24/7 for the last three months over the issue.

About 3 months till the Olympic Games in Paris!

LizzieSiddal · 14/04/2023 22:49

It's an attitude where people have no civic pride or respect for their environment. This attitude is definite more prevalent in some areas of UK.

When you have politicians in power who blatantly lie (see Bexit/Covid Parties etc etc) who have also through austerity cut billions from every area of public services, no wonder people have “no civic pride”.

We need a government and people in power who actually care about Jo/Joe public. The Tory’s have shown us they don’t but plenty will still vote for them, unfortunately.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 14/04/2023 22:52

Simonjt · 14/04/2023 07:05

Yep, we’re in Stockholm and planning a move to Sweden. No litter on the streets, no dog poo, public transport is clean, reliable and cheap, buggy parks everywhere, lots of well maintained children’s parks. Schools are good and education is valued, childcare is both affordable and good quality.

We viewed some schools last week, one teacher showing us around apologised because they do have some classes where they have too many children, too many was 23 students.

Doesn't Sweden have the highest rate of gun crime in Europe, after Serbia? It's the only, country in Europe where gun crime had actually increased since the year 2000.

Kendodd · 14/04/2023 22:55

I despair about the UK getting any better anytime soon, the English just love the Tories and Brexit too much, it doesn't matter how much poverty we suffer because of them. I could cry for the direction we've taken, entirely our own fault though, we get what we vote for.

I have three teenage children, I'm just hoping they get themselves as highly skilled/qualified as possible so they can get out. The Tories/Brexit voters have won, this is their country now, this breaks my heart.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 14/04/2023 22:57

Yeah, the UK is terrible. That's why brits are moving to Poland, Romania, Lithuania in droves.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 14/04/2023 23:00

Kendodd · 14/04/2023 22:55

I despair about the UK getting any better anytime soon, the English just love the Tories and Brexit too much, it doesn't matter how much poverty we suffer because of them. I could cry for the direction we've taken, entirely our own fault though, we get what we vote for.

I have three teenage children, I'm just hoping they get themselves as highly skilled/qualified as possible so they can get out. The Tories/Brexit voters have won, this is their country now, this breaks my heart.

I'll bet if they did the research they'd find that people who are very anti-Brexit would also be more likely to stay with a controlling partner for the financial benefits. I'd rather have independence even if it made my life harder.

LexMitior · 14/04/2023 23:03

@Kendodd - I think it's also that we are ageing. Old societies don't prosper, they don't innovate, they look inward. Britain is doing that. Comparisons about which countries are doing well and why are important. We should be looking for new ideas and how we can build a better place to live. If your country doesn't look after its people they will not feel invested in its future. You can see some of that in this thread.

Brexit is a good example of that. It's a nostalgic idea. The idea could have had some merit if it had been planned for and how it would benefit people all over the UK. That it was delivered on the back of a fag packet tells you a lot about modern politics.

UndertheCedartree · 14/04/2023 23:03

Not sure where you are, but my parents live in Marbella and the food is not cheap!

Justanotherlurker · 14/04/2023 23:04

Kendodd · 14/04/2023 22:55

I despair about the UK getting any better anytime soon, the English just love the Tories and Brexit too much, it doesn't matter how much poverty we suffer because of them. I could cry for the direction we've taken, entirely our own fault though, we get what we vote for.

I have three teenage children, I'm just hoping they get themselves as highly skilled/qualified as possible so they can get out. The Tories/Brexit voters have won, this is their country now, this breaks my heart.

Did your 5 year old come down and cry this morning about how she couldn't sleep because the Tories are in government as well?

ClareBlue · 14/04/2023 23:11

LizzieSiddal · 14/04/2023 22:49

It's an attitude where people have no civic pride or respect for their environment. This attitude is definite more prevalent in some areas of UK.

When you have politicians in power who blatantly lie (see Bexit/Covid Parties etc etc) who have also through austerity cut billions from every area of public services, no wonder people have “no civic pride”.

We need a government and people in power who actually care about Jo/Joe public. The Tory’s have shown us they don’t but plenty will still vote for them, unfortunately.

The lack of integrity in recent leadership has definitely impacted on UK society but when you see areas in northern Romania that have never had any public money, but have strong civic pride to keep the town clean and recreational areas free from litter and dog shit and anti social behaviour is shunned by the community, the argument about reducing funding doesn't hold. Lack of civic pride is more prevalent in UK than most other European countries for some reason.

cigarettesNalcohol · 14/04/2023 23:34

Unless any of you have actually lived in these EU countries (and by lived I don't mean for a year or three but more like decades), how can you be so sure that it's better over there and we have it worse here ? You can't be sure can you... ? Watch the news here and going on holiday to Spain doesn't show you the real picture of living in Europe.

So let's stop comparing ourselves to Sweden or Paris... and focus on what we can change, and that's our government.

PollyPeptide · 14/04/2023 23:56

LizzieSiddal · 14/04/2023 22:49

It's an attitude where people have no civic pride or respect for their environment. This attitude is definite more prevalent in some areas of UK.

When you have politicians in power who blatantly lie (see Bexit/Covid Parties etc etc) who have also through austerity cut billions from every area of public services, no wonder people have “no civic pride”.

We need a government and people in power who actually care about Jo/Joe public. The Tory’s have shown us they don’t but plenty will still vote for them, unfortunately.

I have civic pride and the area where I live does. Lots of people volunteer to keep the area clean and full of flowers. My pride in where I live isn't dependent on a politician I probably haven't even elected. I do a lot of travelling around the country and it's such a beautiful place to live. It has loads of attractions and places to see. It's the public who ruin it by dropping litter and being obnoxiously thoughtless in their attitude towards others.

thebaneofmylifeisacat · 15/04/2023 00:50

Threads like this so middle class so white so entitled so utterly dripping with smug.

Yes GB is a bloody awful place to live that's why thousands of people literally risk their lives to get here from FRANCE (eu country where asylum seekers are lucky to get a fucking tent under an underpass? . Come here!!

Idiot

suburbophobe · 15/04/2023 00:56

^Well done Tories. You took a fantastic county and a brilliant city and made them worse. For what?! Power? I can’t get my head around why they wanted brexit. It’s been a disaster to manage - they obviously knew it would be a farce - why did they want it?

I'm no expert but the EU were cracking down on offshore tax havens, people hiding their wealth.....

Won't find that in any Brexit manifesto though.

As for Nigel Farage, spouting his shit while being paid by EU taxpayers....

Corrupt bastards the lot of them.

suburbophobe · 15/04/2023 01:19

thousands of people literally risk their lives to get here

Thousands of people risk their lives to get anywhere that is safe. Read about the Darien Gap crossing in Central America? It's brutal. Even Chinese are crossing it in order to get to USA.

You don't need to carry ID cards in UK, so it is easy to disappear into the unknown.
I have one. It's like a passport to EU countries and beyond (Morocco, Turkey, etc.). Size of a Credit Card.

asylum seekers are lucky to get a fucking tent under an underpass? . Come here!!

I hear the homeless situation in UK is dire too. Like USA cities. San Francisco, I was there with my son, it was fabulous, wouldn't go there now.

purpledalmation · 15/04/2023 01:36

Strikes and rioting in France. Yep, it's just fine there.

Argyllsocks567 · 15/04/2023 04:36

cigarettesNalcohol · 14/04/2023 23:34

Unless any of you have actually lived in these EU countries (and by lived I don't mean for a year or three but more like decades), how can you be so sure that it's better over there and we have it worse here ? You can't be sure can you... ? Watch the news here and going on holiday to Spain doesn't show you the real picture of living in Europe.

So let's stop comparing ourselves to Sweden or Paris... and focus on what we can change, and that's our government.

Have you not read post after post from Brits who are living long-term in an EU country talking about:
-integrated excellent reasonably priced public transport
-being able to see doc or dentist same or next day for Euros 30 (much of which gets returned via state subsidised health insurance
-free education even at uni level
-good child care provision
-twice weekly bin collection

^^ I’ve lived in France, Belgium, and Luxembourg and all have the above - in other words they have the fundamentals sorted - pretty sure Germany, Austria and the Netherlands have the same.

We are talking about government investment in better public services at the most fundamental level.

OMG12 · 15/04/2023 04:51

I sometimes wonder how well travelled people on these threads are. Have they ever visited the non- tourist areas of these countries, seen the poverty, graffiti etc? It appears many of these notions about France and Spain are based on tourist areas and pretty little villages. It’s like visiting the Cotswolds and thinking that’s all of British life.

They forget about tax rates.

I do think there’s a lack of civic pride, because every time someone says they’re proud to be British someone labels them a racist.

people spend so much time, not celebrating our wonderful history but beating us up about the British Empire.

Theres an expectation of something for nothing. Lack of discipline in schools, broken families where work ethic is forgotten.

it’s not just the rights fault that some of these issies exist.

Argyllsocks567 · 15/04/2023 05:35

OMG12 · 15/04/2023 04:51

I sometimes wonder how well travelled people on these threads are. Have they ever visited the non- tourist areas of these countries, seen the poverty, graffiti etc? It appears many of these notions about France and Spain are based on tourist areas and pretty little villages. It’s like visiting the Cotswolds and thinking that’s all of British life.

They forget about tax rates.

I do think there’s a lack of civic pride, because every time someone says they’re proud to be British someone labels them a racist.

people spend so much time, not celebrating our wonderful history but beating us up about the British Empire.

Theres an expectation of something for nothing. Lack of discipline in schools, broken families where work ethic is forgotten.

it’s not just the rights fault that some of these issies exist.

I’ve commented and spent over 20 years living in three different European countries, have you?

I’m afraid your argument applies the just the same in reverse!