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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Different views about money and debt

81 replies

StrongCoffeeAvalanche · 14/04/2023 05:43

So some of my friends spend around £1k over what they earn every month. They do get occasional lump sums from family members, or bonuses from work which will obviously help reduce the debt a bit. But the debt value is going up not down over time. They all have mortgages also.

For me, other than essential debts (mortgage and car finance) I try to stay out of further debt. If I do borrow money I work hard to pay off the loan. But my friends have around £20-30k debt on top of the essentials which is always increasing (they are not paying it off, just getting further and further into debt). They go on a holiday abroad every year which cost around £6k each holiday. They always have take aways and buy designer clothes etc.

I have been asked to go on a holiday abroad with them with our husbands and kids. The holiday sounds incredible and I would absolutely love to go. It would also add depth to our friendships and be a lovely bonding trip. But I don't think my family can afford it so politely declined, but said that I hope they have a lovely time on the trip. It would cost about £6k for travel and accommodation which is a lot of money for me.

My household income is less than theirs so I accept my lifestyle will look considerably different from theirs. But they we're visibly stunned when I declined. I think they think I am being tight.

I could go. But would have to be incredibly frugal with money for a very long time to pay off the holiday, which does not appeal. I also don't want to get into debt over it?

AIBU to not go? Or is it worth the money to boost the friendship and have a nice time? I can't work out if I'm just tight with money of if my friends are reckless.... or something in between!

I may suggest a cheaper holiday, but they seem to have their hearts set on this place. I wonder if I am a buzz kill.

OP posts:
MayThe4th · 14/04/2023 05:55

No yanbu.

It horrifies me the amount of people who think that a credit card with x thousands of pounds means that you have that much to spend, and who live on their overdrafts. And the reality is that the further into debt you get, the harder it is to pay it back.

When I first got together with my DP he had brought a lot of debt with him from his previous marriage, and thought that going into your overdraft every month was completely normal. if that view had persisted our relationship would never have survived.

It’s totally understandable to e.g. have a credit card in case of emergencies, but people who rack up thousands and thousands of pounds in debt purely because they can are irresponsible and I wouldn’t be a part of it. No friendship would be worth getting into thousands of pounds worth of debt for.

I don’t have a credit card and the only time I’ve ever gone into my overdraft is when a bill has gone out and has taken me just over the limit because I move my salary into my savings account every month for the interest and just move money back for the bills and essentials. That way if there is any money left at the end of the month it stays in my savings account because it wasn’t just to hand to spend on frivolous stuff.

That doesn’t mean I never spend money on myself, if I can afford to then I do, but if I can’t afford to buy it out of actual money then it doesn’t get bought.

Original poster
StrongCoffeeAvalanche · 14/04/2023 05:59

@MayThe4th thank you, it's nice to meet someone in the same mindset as me!

OP posts:
OrderOfTheKookaburra · 14/04/2023 06:18

I am absolutely with you! I use a credit card for protection and cash back purposes but won't spend more than I can pay off on the next statement.

I am over living in debt and worrying about money like I was with my ex. I now live on less bit feel I have more, because what I have is real, budgeted and, most importantly, mine!!!!

mjf981 · 14/04/2023 06:21

Everyone thinks about money differently. I'm like you but know plenty of people who think like your friends.
I'd just say you can't afford it and leave it at that. Make an effort to do things closer to home / dinners out etc so you see them that way. If they're real friends, they'll accept this and make the effort to keep in contact in a way that works for you both.

MintJulia · 14/04/2023 06:26

Yanbu. Don't go.

I wouldn't either. Your friends may have wealthy parents who help them out regularly. If you haven't, don't let them get you into debt. Will they help when you lose your job or need money for an emergency? I doubt it.

Effieswig · 14/04/2023 06:29

I am 100% like you.

My exh was financially abusive and it took me 4 years to clear debts I was left with. I save for things. I have a dd in Uni and a younger child. I save for Christmas m, birthdays, holidays all year round. I also have an emergency fund (which came in handy when my boiler broke earlier this year). I don’t borrow money.

my best friend, however, has so much debt. It didnt bother her at all. But on the other hand she doesn’t think I am tight either. She understands why I am so careful with money. It’s never caused issues between us. Ever.

However, in the last 2 years she has got to the point where the debt has become almost unmanageable. She no longer can afford to do lots of things and afford the debt repayments. She has really focused on getting them down and improving her credit rating.

So if she declines to do something? I don’t judge her either.

Oysterbabe · 14/04/2023 06:30

We live within our means.
I'm surprised you know such detail about your friend's finances, I couldn't tell you about how much if any debt mine have.

Mercurial123 · 14/04/2023 06:32

You know YANBU. Everyone is free to spend their money however they wish. Your friends, however are clearly living a life they can't afford.

PurBal · 14/04/2023 06:36

my friends have around £20-30k debt on top of the essentials which is always increasing this horrifies me, surely this can’t be normal?!

I’m with you.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 14/04/2023 06:36

No, definitely don't go getting yourself into debt for a holiday.

If your friends want to borrow, that's their decision. No judgement. But you should do what is right for your family.

Badbudgeter · 14/04/2023 06:43

I wouldn’t want to get into debt for a holiday either. I have two debts mortgage and a car loan that any spare cash goes towards paying off faster. Cc bills paid off at the end of the month.

Some people have different attitudes to debt which is fine but not for me. I do wonder if you/ your parents have been poor or struggled with money as I think that can make you more risk averse than someone who has always sailed through money wise.

Pepperama · 14/04/2023 06:50

The only reason I’d consider going into debt for is for a medical emergency if waiting lists meant things were deteriorating/ risk causing lasting damage. Definitely not for leisure, holidays, luxury lifestyle things

Original poster
StrongCoffeeAvalanche · 14/04/2023 06:52

I've never been poor or struggled with money. I probably had the most affluent upbringing of all of us. Me and my DH love our jobs but they don't pay particularly well.

My parents would help me out if I was in financial ruin but I wouldn't feel right asking for £6k because I wanted to go on a jolly holiday. They would pay for example if my boiler broke and I couldn't cover it and I was desperate.

One of my friends has no family financial support at all, but she seems the least stressed.

My parents are wealthy (ish) but careful with their money, I think that's where I get my attitude from.

I need some new furniture but won't buy it until I've saved the money. My friends wouldn't hesitate and would have just stuck it on a credit card months ago.

Thank you for all the replies! So helpful

OP posts:
Timspam · 14/04/2023 06:55

Hi.

Totally with you, in fact I would really enjoy the holiday if the financial side had put me out of my natural behaviour and comfort zone plus there's often a low after a holiday and back to work etc, imagine the double low with the financial pressure.

Plus I have just lost a job unexpectedly and I have no debt other than my mortgage, don't get me wrong I'm stressed out but if I had 20k of unsecured debt I'd be terrified!

Original poster
StrongCoffeeAvalanche · 14/04/2023 06:56

PurBal · 14/04/2023 06:36

my friends have around £20-30k debt on top of the essentials which is always increasing this horrifies me, surely this can’t be normal?!

I’m with you.

Yes I was wondering if this was normal or not. I don't want to judge my friends, it's just that I don't want to get into this situation myself. To come back from that level of debt surely would mean a huge lifestyle change, just to stop getting further into debt. Let alone to start paying it back?

I guess I don't know their full financial situation, but I do know mine. It would be a lot of scrimping and stress later on to pay this money back.

OP posts:
FindingMeno · 14/04/2023 06:59

Credit is a trap.
When debt spirals out of control it suffocates you.
Don't see yourself as somehow not normal because you refuse to get in that situation.
Don't go.

Original poster
StrongCoffeeAvalanche · 14/04/2023 07:00

Effieswig · 14/04/2023 06:29

I am 100% like you.

My exh was financially abusive and it took me 4 years to clear debts I was left with. I save for things. I have a dd in Uni and a younger child. I save for Christmas m, birthdays, holidays all year round. I also have an emergency fund (which came in handy when my boiler broke earlier this year). I don’t borrow money.

my best friend, however, has so much debt. It didnt bother her at all. But on the other hand she doesn’t think I am tight either. She understands why I am so careful with money. It’s never caused issues between us. Ever.

However, in the last 2 years she has got to the point where the debt has become almost unmanageable. She no longer can afford to do lots of things and afford the debt repayments. She has really focused on getting them down and improving her credit rating.

So if she declines to do something? I don’t judge her either.

I'm sorry to hear about your ex that must have been so difficult.

I wonder if my friends will reach the same point as your friend at some point...

OP posts:
Original poster
StrongCoffeeAvalanche · 14/04/2023 07:00

FindingMeno · 14/04/2023 06:59

Credit is a trap.
When debt spirals out of control it suffocates you.
Don't see yourself as somehow not normal because you refuse to get in that situation.
Don't go.

Thank you, great advice!

OP posts:
Soleiro · 14/04/2023 07:16

Op have your friends told you how much they owe or are you guessing re the debt amounts? I can never imagine living like that, it sounds really stressful! You are in the majority I think.

Original poster
StrongCoffeeAvalanche · 14/04/2023 07:27

Soleiro · 14/04/2023 07:16

Op have your friends told you how much they owe or are you guessing re the debt amounts? I can never imagine living like that, it sounds really stressful! You are in the majority I think.

Yes they have told me how much they owe, and that the debt is increasing. They are in the mindset that you only live once and should enjoy life. They will worry about the debt later.

OP posts:
Eggyeaster · 14/04/2023 07:27

I do agree with you but I also think people being in debt can be a complex issue and not just being a feckless & irresponsible (although that can be obviously be a big part of it).

I spent years in debt and spent money on whims and impulsively, feel ashamed, spiral and then spend more. I went on to have a huge amount of therapy (actually the therapy not for debt specifically but really helped me sort it out) but there was a lot more going on. Thankfully I’ve paid off my debt and feel so much more in control but the reasons why people spend and get into debt aren’t always so cut and dry.

Truestorypeeps · 14/04/2023 07:29

My credit card balance is zero. I use it for booking flights and such and pay it off in full each month before I'd be charged any interest. I paid my 8 year old car off last January. No newer car that I could afford does anything for me, so I'm keeping this one for a good few years. To me, I enjoy no car payment more than having newer wheels.

No way would I spend 6k on a holiday. Go for 2 weeks and spend 3 years paying it back!? No thanks. Plus there's a good chance they'll go again and invite you, what would you do then? Is there a cheaper resort nearby and you could meet up outside the hotels? Just a thought.

Eggyeaster · 14/04/2023 07:30

Sorry to answer your question, could you speak to your friend about this. My BF whilst really good with money, earns 3 times what I do but we always have an agreement about expectations on spending when we’re away and that works.

Eggyeaster · 14/04/2023 07:32

also these threads will only be replied to by people who have zero debt and incredibly good for money, which honestly I admire, but you probably won’t get a very balanced conversation about debt.

FrenchandSaunders · 14/04/2023 07:32

I can be a bit like your friends and DH is more like you.

I like to say yes to every holiday, meal, outing regardless of cost. I think it’s because my parents led a frugal life saving for retirement, had loads of plans and then dad died shortly after. Whereas DHs parents are still alive.

So I live for now, you don’t know what’s around the corner.

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