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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a serious error and the resolution doesn’t really cut it

438 replies

Myinterestingnewpath · 13/04/2023 08:01

Visited a well known chain restaurant, early in the week so it wasn’t busy, only about six tables tables taken. I was with my daughter, asked if I could have a table instead of a booth, as I have an assistance dog. My dog is a small/medium size, and was wearing his harness. I got asked if he was a guide dog, I said no an assistance dog. He then asked what that meant. I explained that the dog helps me with tasks that help me live my daily life. He then asked what exactly that meant. So I explained I have neurological damage after breaking my neck, and I can’t feel my fingers so drop things and the dog retrieves them. I also explained I have balance issues, so bending down without falling over is a problem. I then got asked if it was a guide dog again. I said no. He then said you can’t come in because it’s not a guide dog and you’re not blind!! I am not a confrontational person so I just said ok, we’ll just go the restaurant next door, (which is owned by the same group) as they always welcome me. The next day I rang head office and they admitted that what he did is unlawful, and they would do some staff training. Turning away a disabled person because of their equipment is a serious issue. Dogs are classed as auxiliary aids same as wheelchairs. I have been offered £20, I think they’ve got off lightly. What do mumsnetters think?

YABU-restaurants can choose who dines
YANBU-it’s discrimination

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Arewehumanorarewecupboards · 13/04/2023 08:33

It was discrimination and a complete lack of awareness but I think the promise of training is enough isn’t it?

What do you think would have been an appropriate response to the complaint? (Btw you were totally right to complain, I just wondered what you would deem appropriate).

SheikYerboutiii · 13/04/2023 08:34

£20 doesn’t really cover the humiliation though does it? To be drilled about your medical condition, in front of other customers, to be illegally turned away. Disgusting, and I’m not shocked but annoyed MNetters still don’t see past this rank ableism. But then judging by threads of recent MNetters think disabled people should just shut up and go away as to not inconvenience or upset all the normies

Tarantullah · 13/04/2023 08:34

Sounds like they have reacted fairly to be honest. Admitted they were wrong, pledged to do staff training and a monetary token.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 13/04/2023 08:35

sashagabadon · 13/04/2023 08:28

Are assistance dogs official in any way? Do they wear anything? How can you tell an assistance dog from a regular dog?
i think it is on the owner to make sure their dog is clearly identified in an official way rather than the poor Restuarant worker who is trying to do his job.

Yes and no - it's a really grey area.

There are registered assistance dogs but there's also nothing to stop you from buying harness off eBay, putting it on your dog and claiming they're an assistance dog.

And that's what's causing problems. Businesses are afraid to be accused of discrimination but lots of these dogs are just pets with no training and they often have behavioural issues.

It's interesting that OP says her dog wears a harness but not that he's actually a registered assistance dog.

user1473878824 · 13/04/2023 08:35

Okay so you just want more money off? Which is fine. But why does it matter what other people would do? I think you handled it very well and explained it very well to them and now it won’t happen again.

AlisonDonut · 13/04/2023 08:36

I'd say I was not concerned with the £20 but I need to see who they have booked the training with, the invoice for the training and new visible improved awareness of assistance dogs in the venue or I would be taking further action and going to the press.

carriedout · 13/04/2023 08:37

Sorry to read this happened to you.

It is not really about the money, yet the low value feels wrong because to use the voucher you'd have to spend more of your own money which would be a bit galling.

What would you have liked?

Drusillagobwitch · 13/04/2023 08:37

TeenDivided · 13/04/2023 08:16

I also wouldn't be surprised if this is a one off experience for the OP.
It would get pretty tiring pretty quickly if she gets turned away from places on a regular basis.

A £20 voucher give away doesn't give the organisation any incentive to try to train all staff better in all relevant areas. It is cheaper to not train then give away £20 to anyone who complains.

So a complimentary 3 course meal for 2 including soft drinks might enforce the point better than a £20 voucher (that probably requires the OP to spend more money anyway t make a meal.)

I agree with this and think the £20 offered was derisory.

I would contact the Head Office again and say just that. If they refuse to "up their offer", quote "policy" etc then just tell them you are sorry they can't be more forthcoming.

Then notify the local press (but don't tell head office about this or it could be seen as 'blackmail').
You won't get any more compensation but the bad publicity will sting them a bit and hopefully someone somewhere will get a rollocking and others won't be subject to the same humiliation.

Hoppinggreen · 13/04/2023 08:38

It was not a nice experience but I think the resolution they have offered is reasonable

RoxTen · 13/04/2023 08:39

This is definitely an area where the law could do with tidied up. As others have said many problems have been caused by people just saying their dog (or other assorted animal) is an assistance dog. The animal has no training and causes problems. Airlines have I know tightened up on this.

Yes, I know people who are claiming their dog as an assistance dog but it's only assistance is being present iyswim. It's had no training, and in fact is less trained and would cause more of a nuisance in a restaurant than my pet dog.

I'm not clued up on the law, but lots of places locally seem to state guide or hearing dogs only.

FiledAwayInABox · 13/04/2023 08:44

TheYearOfSmallThings · 13/04/2023 08:23

I actually think this is not a straightforward issue. I worked in an eye hospital where certified guide dogs were obviously welcome. Other patients would then try to bring "assistance dogs" to clinics, and their behaviour caused problems (growling, snarling, peeing), so we began to ask for evidence of training and certification.

Most of those dogs had no certification. They had not been received any training or testing, let alone the very extensive training and selection guide dogs receive before being certified. Their owners found their presence helpful and the dogs may fetch things for their owners, so the owners out an "assistance dog" coat on them and tried to bring them into spaces where dogs are not permitted. Unfortunately I think this is why businesses are not welcoming all "assistance dogs", and why it is important to bring proof of certification.

This is what I suspect too. I think there is a grey area over what an assistance dog is.

Original poster
Myinterestingnewpath · 13/04/2023 08:44

Sorry, for not saying, I just assumed it was a given. My dog is registered, why else would he be accompanying me.

OP posts:
Tickledtrout · 13/04/2023 08:44

Yanbu. In addition to staff training, they should offer a replacement meal and drinks

notimagain · 13/04/2023 08:45

helpfulperson · 13/04/2023 08:29

This is definitely an area where the law could do with tidied up. As others have said many problems have been caused by people just saying their dog (or other assorted animal) is an assistance dog. The animal has no training and causes problems. Airlines have I know tightened up on this.

You're not wrong and here is a UK based airline's current policy on what they call "service dogs":

"A service dog is one that has been trained to assist a person with a disability or medical condition and has been determined as being able to travel safely in the aircraft cabin. For your service dog to travel with you in the cabin on XXXXX your service dog must:

  • be individually trained in specific tasks to assist you with your disability or medical condition
  • have had behavioural training and show appropriate behaviour in public and onboard an aircraft
  • wear an identifying jacket/harness, and
  • remain under your control at all times
Be aware that we will ask you to send documents confirming the specific training your dog has completed, as well as its height at shoulder and its weight. If your dog does not meet these criteria, or is an emotional support dog, it will need to travel as a domestic pet".

(my emphasis).

LittleBlueBrioTrain · 13/04/2023 08:45

Anyone can claim their dog is an assistance dog and pop a jacket on it they bought from amazon.

Genuine assistance dogs will be trained, assessed and registered with a recognised organisation, just as guide dogs are. These dogs are usually supplied by the organisation (and therefore belongs to them, and they are responsible for the dogs health and welfare, cover vet fees etc.) but it is possible to have your own dog assessed for registration.

Such organisations include Hearing Dogs for the Deaf (usually wear purple jackets) and Dogs for the Disabled (blue jackets). These dogs are treated like guide dogs. These dogs will have official ID which the owner can produce to verify.

There is a definite increase in people claiming their untrained, unassessed, unregistered dog is an assistance dog (or the latest, emotional support dog).

Is your dog registered OP?

CentrifugalBumblePuppy · 13/04/2023 08:45

Definitely discrimination if your dog was wearing their harness. Admitting fault & investing in more training is a good start, but a comp’d meal for 2 would have been a better gesture.

It boggles my mind that in 2023 we still have discrimination against people with disabilities. An event a couple of weeks ago (a stranger assaulting my DH with no provocation, it’s a police matter now) had the guy shouting in my face that, “(I) don’t have a (fucking) disability as I don’t have a Blue Badge.” I spend half my life on crutches & with walking sticks. I do wish (silently) this arse has even a single day of my spinal degeneration, deformity & spinal cysts, with all the pain & mind mangling medication like Tramadol & Pregabalin he can stuff down his wretched, vile maw. Bastard.

And that doesn’t even cover my hidden disability; I have cPTSD from a previous violent relationship & very violent father, so guess who’s back to flash backs, panic attacks & lorazepam? Double bastard.

If someone is using a device or aid, or is using a harnessed assistance animal, then a) don’t question their disability and b) work within the law to give us access to the world like everyone else.

HoppingPavlova · 13/04/2023 08:47

This reply has been deleted

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Drusillagobwitch · 13/04/2023 08:47

@LittleBlueBrioTrain

Is your dog registered OP?

OP said so at 8.44.

GOW56 · 13/04/2023 08:48

It sounds as though they are not training their staff properly. Probably just employing people and letting them get on with it
If they have assured you they will addresses that and they do I think that should be ok.
However if they don't address it and change how they operate then yes I think it should be taken further

Backinntheroom · 13/04/2023 08:48

useitorlose · 13/04/2023 08:09

Discrimination and against the law. Go to the press if you don't mind the publicity. They'll give you a lot more than £20 then, and I know it's not about the money.

Hammer to crack a walnut there @useitorlose !

As many have said, it may well have been a new person, or that they were not quite understanding of assistance dogs (indeed, many shops/restaurants have no idea about guide dogs let alone assistance dogs)

The restaurant has outlined what they will do. If they don't, then take it further

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 13/04/2023 08:48

Myinterestingnewpath · 13/04/2023 08:44

Sorry, for not saying, I just assumed it was a given. My dog is registered, why else would he be accompanying me.

Unfortunately anyone can buy an assistance dog harness and use it on their dogs.

It's been in the news a lot recently and a lot of companies are (maybe unfairly) cracking down on it as it's been causing a lot of problems.

DrHousecuredme · 13/04/2023 08:49

Myinterestingnewpath · 13/04/2023 08:33

Just to be clear, I will accept the £20 pounds. In my other life I was an area manager and I would’ve dealt with this by offering a free meal for two (not including alcoholic drinks) and perhaps 10% off a subsequent visit. We liked to keep customers happy. Head office did express their thanks for not persuing legal action and for not going to the press. I have no intention to do either. Maybe times have changed, but customer satisfaction was high on the list, this resolution seems so so. This post is not about what I want or expect, I just want to know what others think.

Ok so firstly I'm sorry this happened to you, I can imagine it was embarrassing.
I think that arranging training is the best resolution here.

At the end of the day you got a meal at the restaurant next door (I'm assuming) so whilst discriminatory, awkward and embarrassing the incident didn't actually do you a significant amount of harm.

Therefore the most significant thing wrong with this scenario is the disability discrimination caused by ignorance about the different types of service dogs and their unwillingness to accept your explanation or go and look it up. The correct training will help you but also other people in your position.

Whereas a fully funded meal for two will only help you.

All that said, if you were embarrassed enough that only a fully funded meal for two will make you feel better then go for it. I imagine it won't take much more fuss for them to give in.

LittleBlueBrioTrain · 13/04/2023 08:49

Drusillagobwitch · 13/04/2023 08:47

@LittleBlueBrioTrain

Is your dog registered OP?

OP said so at 8.44.

And I posted at 8:45 so clearly a cross post.

@Myinterestingnewpath did you show your dogs ID/registration info when challenged?

Chessetchelsea · 13/04/2023 08:49

I’m surprised at the reactions on this thread (but then should I be, given it’s AIBU?). It’s like posters set out to twist or minimize whatever the OP has said…

So, official assistance dog, blatant discrimination, derisory £20 voucher offered as compensation. Can you imagine if the restaurant had turned away someone because of the colour of their skin? Or visibly of a certain religion? Everyone would be up in arms and heads would be rolling at head office. The attitude here seems to be there, there, dear. Nothing to worry about. Pipe down and be grateful for the voucher!

Definitely not good enough and I think I would be tempted to go to the press, OP. It sounds like two staff members were discriminatory, not just one, and there simply is no excuse in this day and age. I’m sorry this happened to you.