Page 5 | Wine, do you think you are an alcoholic if..

EatsYummySprouts · 2023-04-12T18:23:10+00:00

How much wine (that‘s my tipple) do you drink per day and does drinking 3 normal size glasses of wine every evening make you an alcoholic? YABU = yes YANBU = no

LactoseTheIntolerant · 13/04/2023 07:47

HedgerowRobin · 12/04/2023 21:47

As requested.

Every time your liver has to filter alcohol, some liver cells die. Most people are aware that the liver is regenerative but that is only to a certain extent and certainly not in the context of prolonged alcohol excess (over the recommended units per week for a significant length of time).

Eventually your liver becomes damaged and scarred - causing cirrhosis and associated complications. Liver disease and cirrhosis often don’t show signs or symptoms until very late stage - definitely too late to reverse any damage already done.

Complications of liver disease include oesophageal varices - effectively varicose veins in the gullet. The liver is responsible for producing many of your blood clotting factors. These varices can go undetected for a long period of time and then suddenly rupture. Your blood then does not clot correctly due to the liver damage and I have watched patients bleed to death in a matter of minutes due to enormous variceal haemorrhage.

Other complications of liver disease include ascites - the build up of fluid in the abdomen. People end up looking 9 months pregnant due to the sheer volume of fluid in their abdomens. This is painful and compresses the other organs, causing breathing difficulties and mobility issues. This symptom is often recurrent and people require repeated abdominal drains. This fluid often gets infected (spontaneous bacterial peritonitis) and people die from this or from infections caused by repeated drains.

Toxins can build up in the brain due to liver damage causing a condition called encephalopathy - extremely sudden onset acute confusion. I have seen patients violently attack their families due to this confusion and cared for patients who are comatose due to this build up of toxins - it can cause death if not responsive to treatment.

I have cared for people who were admitted with sudden onset alcoholic hepatitis after a drinking episode that was more than their ‘usual’. People who had no signs of liver disease beforehand - suddenly acutely unwell and needing a lifesaving liver transplant which they ultimately never receive because as someone who drinks excessively, they are the bottom of the transplant list and almost always die before a new liver is found. Most transplant lists require a 6 month period alcohol abstinence before you can even be listed for a transplant.

I have watched people in their late 40s admitted with sudden onset symptoms who are so acutely unwell that they die a couple of weeks later in hospital with their children and spouses in such emotional distress because they did not think that their family members drinking was a concern.

Posters saying that OP should just ‘carry on if they enjoy it’ are absolutely deluded to think that this level of drinking can be maintained indefinitely with no consequences.

Brilliant post!
Op I really would recommend that you read a couple of books about it such as 'this naked mind' and see how you feel about it after.

Newnamenewname109870 · 13/04/2023 07:52

That does seem like a lot personally. Try and cut it down and see how that goes.

Sailawaytocromer · 13/04/2023 07:58

I have also recently lost a friend to liver disease. She drank a similar amount for years. Died in her early 50’s. Absolutely tragic. It took her/everyone a while to understand fully that the 3 glasses of wine (or similar) had caused so much damage because it was socially so normal - especially in her 20’s and 30’s.

I don’t drink much so it’s easy for me to say you should cut down. I know it’s not that easy.

Changeau · 13/04/2023 07:59

It's the varices that are the real problem as a PP explains above. Impossible to detect as well.

VestaTilley · 13/04/2023 08:04

I don’t drink any alcohol every day.

Three large glasses each day (OMG) is alcoholic territory because you’re going way beyond the healthy weekly limit.

Sailawaytocromer · 13/04/2023 08:04

@HedgerowRobin that’s such a helpful post. I recognise so much of what you’ve written in my friends illness, treatment and death. None of us thought she had a major problem with alcohol (I never lived with her so only knew she would always have a glass or two or three when out).

QueSyrahSyrah · 13/04/2023 08:06

I can easily put away 3 glasses (or more) in an evening, but I realise that's not especially healthy so I stick to drinking just one or two nights a week.

The best part of a bottle daily looks like a red flag for a problem to me. It's all very well to say you don't need it, but in practice it sounds like you do.

ButterCrackers · 13/04/2023 08:10

I don’t drink alcohol at all. So my advice is to not drink alcohol. Can you do that? If not you have a problem that needs medical help.

Thepeopleversuswork · 13/04/2023 08:14

Sailawaytocromer · 13/04/2023 08:04

@HedgerowRobin that’s such a helpful post. I recognise so much of what you’ve written in my friends illness, treatment and death. None of us thought she had a major problem with alcohol (I never lived with her so only knew she would always have a glass or two or three when out).

It's also worth making an important distinction between being physically dependent on alcohol and drinking to the point that it's damaging your body. These are not necessarily the same thing at all.

This is why the term "alcoholic" isn't really helpful. You can drink yourself to death without being an alcoholic. It's perfectly possible to be able to go many days without alcohol and not feel any withdrawal symptoms but also to be drinking at a level which is doing huge damage to your body.

A friend of mine developed liver damage in her late 40s (she sadly died of breast cancer which may or may not have been related but I can't imagine the drinking was not a factor). We had all known she "liked a drink" but there was nothing to distinguish her "liking a drink" from the way anyone else "liked a drink". She wasn't someone we all worried about. Yes we saw her sometimes polishing off a bottle with friends but that was what everyone did. No one took her aside and said she should try to cut down or anything like this. We all drank like her until she died of it. Now I barely drink at all.

As plenty of people have said here and elsewhere, it's so normal in our society to drink at a level which can kill you in middle age and no one bats an eyelid until it kills a friend.

PleaseJustText · 13/04/2023 08:15

I was the same. Then I tried giving up alcohol for a week and couldn't. That's when I realised I had a serious problem.

Skinnermarink · 13/04/2023 08:18

Hollyhobbi · 12/04/2023 20:24

What about another aspect of it? Are you over the drink driving limit every single night of the week? Are you over the limit in morning? What if you had an emergency situation and needed to drive somewhere?

Yes, I can’t drive in the mornings or in an emergency either, not because of drink but mainly because I can’t drive. I’d get a taxi or call an ambulance. Plenty of people don't have card and that is sod all to do with alcohol, so it’s a silly point really.

ItchycooParkCult · 13/04/2023 08:20

EatsYummySprouts · 12/04/2023 19:28

I don‘t think I am, and I can go without if I want to…but it relaxes me from my very stressful life at the moment..

This right here. This makes you a problem drinker or on the cusp of it.

drinking to relax is a major red flag for alcohol dependency.

drinking every night is dependency because it’s become habitual and you believe you need it to relax. Even if you function

find yourself a healthier way to ‘relax’. Walk, yoga, spend the money you spend on wine on fancy bath/shower stuff. A massage every week.

be wary about going cold Turkey on the booze though if you’re drinking 3 glasses a night. Some people can still get some irritability and withdrawal from stopping outright even from just 3 glasses and if you’re not aware that it’s withdrawal then you can easily go back to drinking.

HedgerowRobin · 13/04/2023 08:21

Changeau · 13/04/2023 06:39

and needing a lifesaving liver transplant which they ultimately never receive because as someone who drinks excessively, they are the bottom of the transplant list and almost always die before a new liver is found. Most transplant lists require a 6 month period alcohol abstinence before you can even be listed for a transplant

All your information is very interesting and correct but I must say the first part of this paragraph is slightly misleading. People who have damaged their livers through alcohol are not necessarily put at the bottom of the list - once they have completed the 6 months abstinence they will be listed in order of need like anyone else (I've spent the last 6 months helping someone during and after an alcohol related transplant).

Apologies if I didn’t word clearly but I was referencing that those who continue drinking alcohol will remain at the bottom of the list (if even listed) or will be required to complete a 6 month period of abstinence before being listed (in order of need as you correctly state). However, realistically, by the time most people present with alcohol related liver damage, they are quite unwell and many either are mentally unable to complete the 6 months abstinence or have complications that mean they are not medically fit to be listed. I have known many patients who completed the 6 months abstinence, were listed and then passed away due to related complications during their time on the waiting list. I can only think of a handful of patients I have know with alcohol related liver disease who actually received a transplant - it is quite a rarity in my experience.

midgemadgemodge · 13/04/2023 08:22

3 glasses a night

So more than 3 bottles a week

And every night

Not good

Londongal123 · 13/04/2023 08:32

Drinking every night is problematic. It’s all a spectrum. If you keep it up your tolerance will build and 3 will turn into 4 just like how 2 turned into 3. You will have negative health effects from this in a few years.

pointythings · 13/04/2023 08:35

It isn't about how much you drink as much as why you drink. You're using alcohol to cope with stress. That is an unhealthy coping mechanism and you need to find other ways of unwinding.

You are drinking more than is good for you as well - if these are standard 175 ml glasses, you're getting through 6 units night if it's 12.5% abv, so 42 units a week. That's a lot.

DogsDryWineAndCheese · 13/04/2023 08:35

It might be problematic (dependent on circumstances) but it doesn’t mean you’re an alcoholic. I’ll usually have that much a night but then might not drink for 4 or 5 days because I just don’t fancy it.

slowquickstep · 13/04/2023 08:45

OP You may to be an alcoholic yet but you are far down the road to being one. Test yourself, tell yourself no more wine for one month ? What is your reaction ? That will tell you wether you have a problem or not. Be honest with yourself.

Anjo2011 · 13/04/2023 08:47

Too much every night.

IDontWantToBeAPie · 13/04/2023 08:48

That's almost a bottle of wine. It doesn't mean you're an alcoholic - that's a state of addiction/dependency you might or might not have.

But it is too much. I don't drink any wine everyday and I love booze. I only drink Friday and Saturday when yes I might have 3 large glasses, but everyday is bad for your health. You should have at LEAST two alcohol free days a week.

If you feel unable to do that then you might well have a problem with alcohol.

Persipan · 13/04/2023 08:53

OP, I'm not sure the term 'alcoholic' is helpful but here's a link to a screening tool that can help identify problems with alcohol - I suggest you complete it and then reflect on the outcomes. https://patient.info/doctor/alcohol-use-disorders-identification-test-audit

From what you've described, I would say that you are drinking at a level that will be likely to have health implications, whether that's in the short or long term. Others have mentioned your liver, but there are also other health consequences you may not be aware of - particularly strong links to various types of cancer, especially breast and oral cancers. So even if socially your drinking seems fine, there are some very significant potential consequences.

Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test (AUDIT) | Doctor

This is a more detailed questionnaire than the CAGE Questions . It has been developed by the World Health Organization [ 13287 : Babor TF, Higgins-Biddle...

https://patient.info/doctor/alcohol-use-disorders-identification-test-audit

CoalCraft · 13/04/2023 08:53

If you're using it to de-stress and feel unable to relax without it then yes, you're an alcoholic.

itssquidstella · 13/04/2023 08:54

I don't drink daily. I'll usually drink at the weekend (Friday, Saturday, Sunday). If I’ve got lots of social plans then it might be more frequent, but I always have a minimum of two days per week without alcohol.

Max I drink in one 'session' would normally be half a bottle of wine and a whisky, but I wouldn't have that much on consecutive days, quite often I'll just have one glass of wine.

When you add it all up, though, even that probably puts me over the recommended weekly limit, so I'd say that three glasses of wine every evening is definitely more than you 'should' be having.

The key question is, how do you feel if you can't drink for some reason? Do you ever have a day where you don't drink and don't think to yourself "oh I’m not drinking today, well done me!"

If you're thinking about alcohol on a daily basis - either looking forward to having a drink or reminding yourself that you're not going to drink that day - then you've probably got a problem.

NerrSnerr · 13/04/2023 09:02

I don't think it's helpful to just think 'am I an alcoholic' as there isn't a fixed diagnosis as such.

What I'd wonder is if it is causing any problems? How's your sleep, skin, mood etc? How does it make you feel when you're drinking, how does it make you feel when not drinking?

I recently quit alcohol. I was probably drinking once a week but on nights out etc I always have too much and decided enough was enough with the hangovers. I wasn't an alcoholic but the bad effects were outweighing the good.

Changeau · 13/04/2023 09:03

HedgerowRobin · 13/04/2023 08:21

Apologies if I didn’t word clearly but I was referencing that those who continue drinking alcohol will remain at the bottom of the list (if even listed) or will be required to complete a 6 month period of abstinence before being listed (in order of need as you correctly state). However, realistically, by the time most people present with alcohol related liver damage, they are quite unwell and many either are mentally unable to complete the 6 months abstinence or have complications that mean they are not medically fit to be listed. I have known many patients who completed the 6 months abstinence, were listed and then passed away due to related complications during their time on the waiting list. I can only think of a handful of patients I have know with alcohol related liver disease who actually received a transplant - it is quite a rarity in my experience.

Show quote history

Yes I can imagine actually getting to the point of having a transplant is difficult, but if they do manage it then they will be prioritised as much as anyone else is, according to the liver transplant team at the hospital my relation went to.