Cost of childcare - is it worth working for near nothing after paying for childcare?

[PJRules]

Was hearing about how 'the cost of childcare means mums are having to give up work' on the radio today.

As a headline it's shocking but I wonder how true it is.

When mine was a baby I made about £20 a day after paying childcare and commuting costs (working 3 days a week).

Is it worth working for 10 hours for £20? Not unless you're desperate for the money imo but it had other advantages:
I stayed in enployment
I progressed in my career
My pension built up
I had a job in case DH lost his
I was mentally stimulated
I got to spend time with adults

When people say they're worse off working is it genuinely true or is it that they don't see the value in going to work for the money they'd get (or they'd just rather be home with baby, no judgement here 😊)?

YABU - I would be financially worse off going to work
YANBU - I would be financially better off but might not think the advantages are worth it

Really I'm just interested to see past the headlines, maybe it really is financially negative for a lot of people to work.

For me I worked despite the crippling nursery costs. We had 4 DC and I maintained my career, gained promotion and have a good pension. The initial hardship is worth it as I am now in a senior position, have good combined wages and have a good life style as do my DC.

You get 30hrs free childcare from age 3 I believe now and there are childcare vouchers for holiday clubs and ASC.

It seems to be always the women who state it is pointless working as the childcare takes up there wage. Well assuming they have a DP/DH surely it is a shared cost? Women need to be more sensible around choices they make especially given the divorce rates.

Hmm, assuming my husband's salary covers our life expenses and mine goes on childcare, I would make net profit of £250. Not much left in my pocket, but pension contributions paid, no gap in CV etc. I am thinking of taking evening job once baby is here and big enough to go to childcare, so we could possibly have more disposable income.

It wasn’t for me with 3 kids. I had a decade off, returned at 31 to retrain as a teacher and was qualified at 32. I did an OU degree during the years I was at home.

Minimum pension contributions are virtually worthless.

It isn’t hard to get back into a shitty low paid job.

There is no career progression in a shitty low paid job.

People keep raising the same points but they only apply to women who already have a good job before they get pregnant.

It's worth paying for if you are going to have career progression and it will be worthwhile in the long run. However for many that is not realistic. I did keep working when my four kids were young but paid very little in childcare as it was a job that could be worked around my dh's working hours. Not sure I would have done it if it hadn't made us significantly better off though. Twenty odd years ago the funding for childcare help was nothing like as generous as it is now. The government currently want everyone back in work paying taxes hence the better childcare funding that was announced in the spring budget.

Yes exactly this.

How about more men start demanding flexible working so that they can take a more equal role in their children’s lives?

How about people start leaving a little more than the accepted norm of 1.5-2.5 years between children? This is a big thing IMO, of course having 2 in full time childcare is going to be a lot of money, you surely know that before you have them?

How about people look at childminders who are usually cheaper and allow you to specify hours?

All of those are things to think about before deciding you won’t work as your pay is on a par with your childcare bills.

This was an issue for me too. If I could have afforded a private nanny who would give my child appropriate care and attention then I’d have rushed back to work. But when your option is sticking your child in a nursery with tons of other kids and overworked underpaid staff, it’s not so attractive or easy to justify. If you’re also not making a profit from working then why do it?

I saw the time with my children as being worth so so much more than the £50 per month I'd have made working during the young years.

My pension contributions weren't anything exciting either. Was much better for my family to take 5years out

YABU. I never understood it either. When my eldest DS was in nursery it wasn't anywhere near some of the prices spouted in here and I was always financially better off working. I recently looked at putting my youngest 2 in childcare...2k for the both of them full time, so now I do understand. I used to work nights part time but quite due to relocation, and I'm looking at going into a new industry that I did a qualification for 2 years ago. I'd need to earn 30k just to break even. Its not realistic to expect to earn 30k at the moment. Yes I have a DH who works and earns a good wage but his money covers out outgoings with a small amount left over each month as disposable income. When it's a case of one person working or staying home, I think it makes sense to work out their income minus childcare. Because you either have that income and the child/kids go in childcare or you don't have that income if that makes sense?

Thank you for this, I'd intended to try to find the figures to work it out.

I had thought there'd be some benefit payment to make it up but forgot its based on household income.

Also makes a huge difference how many kids you have and how close together (obviously). I had planned to have mine really close to get it out of the way, didn't work out like that but I think it would have been a disaster financially.

How about people look at childminders who are usually cheaper and allow you to specify hours?
In our current culture a lot of people feel more comfortable with a formal childcare environment that has CCTV, keycard locks on the doors, high fences, staff supervise each other and are held accountable, and there’s no access for strangers who haven’t been DBS checked. I wouldn’t have wanted my child going to someone’s home where god knows what could happen. Especially when he wasn’t old enough to talk and tell me what was happening.

Childcare for 2 and my commute came to over £3250 a month.

To bring that home after tax, NI, and student loan are deducted I'd need a salary of around £60k just to break even.

I was earning £45k, so it would have cos me £600 a month to work. Yes the career development would have been great, but pension contributions wouldn't be an option because I couldn't afford them and £600 down wasn't affordable for us anyway.

So I now freelance, use minimal nursery then make up time in the evenings and weekend when DH is home. But it's brutal, I barely get a break and tbh the market for freelance has massively slowed down and I can't get back in permanent work because I can't get enough childcare.

It's also finding someone with availability, as they're obviously more restricted with the number of children of certain ages they can take at any one time. I have 2 kids under 3, I could barely find a nursery with space for both of them, let alone a childminder.

@PJRules

I agree that even bringing in very little money for all the reasons you mentioned it's definitely worth it for you.. However you didn't mention the quality of the child care.

I think if the nursery /cm is absolutely top notch creating an amazing environment for the dc, yes it's worth it but if its so so then no. Its not worth it because the child comes first

I've noticed in my area a few childminders who work in pairs - a husband and wife, 2 sisters and a mum and daughter.

I dont know the rules, might mean they can take a couple more kids than they each could on their own? It sounds a much better option than being a single childminder. Lower overheads, less stress for the CM, better supervision.

Off topic but I wish that had been an option when mine was little.

@Prahdeepx

I think you have some anxiety issues there. All of the horrible things that I’ve heard (via the press, which I presume you read a lot of) have been in nurseries not with a childminder.

Not everyone is better off though even by £1, my cousin had twins, childcare for both was over £2.2k a month after tax free childcare.
Her take home pay was £500 less than that, so she stopped working until they went to school as they couldn’t afford to pay for her to work. If she’d had one baby she would have benefited from working.

I’m the main earner and childcare is less than half DH’s pay, so it pays for us both to continue working.

As long as you are in net profit it makes sense to work, but it doesn’t make sense for most people to work for negative figures (some careers excepted).

Not for me, you miss out on so much if you don't spend that time with your children, especially those young years

I gave up as too costly childcare for two. Went back temping when kids older. Summer care cost a fortune wasnt worth it. The people that commented to me were the ones with loads of family help lol. Ive money coming in now dd is 17.

Yes it totally is

Did it twice.

Meant I kept my hand in and built my career.

Now my dc are teens and more independent and I earn at the top of my pay scale

I think it's also massively important to stay financially independent

There are so many women on here trapped in the cycle as they left a career or job to stay at home full
Time due to childcare costs and are now paying dearly

For me yes it was worth it even though childcare was more than my wage. It did mean when dh lost his job, we could still pay things. If dh ever leaves I won't be stuck, I can survive on my own

I work full time. So does my DH. My kids are in nursery 4 days a week (1 and 3) it costs more than our mortgage and we’re barely scraping by despite good jobs. I hate it the system but what can you do? I have to work. SAHP wasn’t even an option.

I dont think all people mean that its financially not worth it. I think they mean, overall it isn't worth it. I'm almost at this stage myself to be honest. I've worked so hard the last 7yrs to stay in full time work. The year before my DD started school, paying for 2 children in fulltime nursery was barely worth it financially, I had around 50 quid a week to spare. Now, there is no wrap around care in my area and my DS has been accepted into a different school so I'm already fully stressed out about how I'm going to make that work. DH works but there is NO flexibility, he works 6am-4:30pm mon-fri. All the childcare responsibilities fall to me and between us we have to use our annual leave to cover kids being sick or off school. We Pay for holiday camps to cover some school hols just so we can have a couple days of our annual leave for ourselves.
There just doesn't seem to be any respite, no opportunity to recover from the constant go, go, go of everyday family life when both parents are in full time work. Just when I thought we were due to save some cash as both will be in school, I worked out that wrap around care and holiday clubs for my 2 children will still cost me 10k a year. So for the stress of it, the lack of time to ourselves/ time to recover from the constant pressures of work and family life, the lack of suitable childcare in a lot of areas and the fact that i pay someone else to spend time with my children and i feel i barely seem to see them? The school events that i miss because I can't get the day off work... I am close to saying that no, it isn't worth it. After doing it for so long I expected some kind of 'give' somewhere but I am perpetually tired and stressed and missing my kids. I see them in the mornings and do the school run, then for a couple hours before they go to bed. However during those times I also have myself and the household tasks to take care of (DH does help out when he's home) so I do 'see' my children I just don't feel like I get enough valuable time with them where I can just give them my full attention and not have to keep checking the time. I found it much easier with just one child and only struggled once I returned to work from my second. Sorry for the epic tale! Haha

The reasons OP has listed are all good reasons to stay in a job.

However, there's a separate list of reasons where it may be best for you and your family for you not to work for a period of time.

I was a SAHM for a longish period, and have no regrets. My kids are awesome and I loved every minute of being with them.