Cost of childcare - is it worth working for near nothing after paying for childcare?

[PJRules]

Was hearing about how 'the cost of childcare means mums are having to give up work' on the radio today.

As a headline it's shocking but I wonder how true it is.

When mine was a baby I made about £20 a day after paying childcare and commuting costs (working 3 days a week).

Is it worth working for 10 hours for £20? Not unless you're desperate for the money imo but it had other advantages:
I stayed in enployment
I progressed in my career
My pension built up
I had a job in case DH lost his
I was mentally stimulated
I got to spend time with adults

When people say they're worse off working is it genuinely true or is it that they don't see the value in going to work for the money they'd get (or they'd just rather be home with baby, no judgement here 😊)?

YABU - I would be financially worse off going to work
YANBU - I would be financially better off but might not think the advantages are worth it

Really I'm just interested to see past the headlines, maybe it really is financially negative for a lot of people to work.

I think all the reasons people put forward that you have listed have value and make sense.

For me for the first 5 years I was £200 pounds worse off a month after commuting and childcare. But it kept me in a career progression.

Was it worth it for the toll it took on my energy, happiness and mentla health/ jury is still out but on balance possibly yes.

But it sucks.

I cannot tell you how jealous I was of my DSIS who had fully 100% subsisided chidlcare in the country she lives in (my country of birth) PLUS wraparound care in the form of her MIL. I have had to work hard on how i felt about that.

My company made me redundant when on mat leave - and offered me a part time low paid position for my return. This took me from a relatively well paid position to a terribly paid part time, term time only position, so at first, nursery fees exceeded my income. I very nearly didn't go back but I did because a) my pension b) my autonomy and c) who knew what was round the corner. I didn't want to give up a precious nursery place if and when a better opportunity came around. As it happened I got a new job 6 months later which put my career back on track so for me, it was totally worth it even though on paper it wasn't financially worth it. Obviously I could only do this as DH wage allowed us to or else I would have had to give up work to be a sahm.

When people say they’re worse off it’s rarely the case. They might not have loads at the end of the month but they also never seem to factor in pension contributions from both themselves and their employer and obviously the cost of leaving the workplace.

It’s so easy to look at a high childcare bill and claim it’s not worth it, then before you know it another 1 or 2 kids have come along, it’s 5 years later and the woman isn’t employable anymore in the way that they were.
The reality is a long gap from employment negatively impacts you whether you’re male or female.

When DC1 and DC2 overlap in nursery I will be making barely anything, and that’s with a good salary! But it’s worth that year or so of pain because in the long run our family will be so much better off.

This is always such a hard balance. I agree with you that there's more at play than just the financial.

When mine were younger I worked PT or casual round my DH's FT job to avoid childcare - was still able to have the benefits of continuing at work, but how PT I worked meant didn't have the benefit of pension / NI etc. (I know I'm lucky you can do that in my sector, I know not all could have evening and weekend work.)

Now my youngest is a term away from her funded nursery place and I'm starting regular hours work and for the next few months will be financially paying a lot of earnings on childcare - however in the longer term it's a good move and I'm so ready for as you say the stability of work and the focus of it, so think it's worth it at this point. Looking forward to funding kicking in though!!!

Not many jobs will allow you to just work 10 hours. If it was only that I think most women would choose to work.

I was made redundant from my job while on mat leave with dc1. I looked for work but there was nothing available to what I had been doing. The industry had taken a total nose dive which is why I was made redundant along with a lot of people similar to me. So when I looked at jobs, the salary was shit. It would have cost me money to go to work and there was nothing part time. So I became a SAHM until we had dc2 and then I went back doing evenings and weekends. Now work term time as DCs are both at school.

I don't think there was an awful lot of choice involved in our situation, but it's worked out really well and together we have quite a high income. We are both degree educated and went to the same well regarded uni which actually has helped recently. Never saw the point in my degree but it has actually got me a good job despite the gap in employment

You are right that its sometimes more than just financial reasons to stay in work - once you get off the ferris wheel, its hard to get back on!

When we had DD we literally sat with an excel spreadsheet and the salary calculator website to work out what made most financial sense. I really wanted to only work four days a week but we couldn't afford it.

If you are on a lower salary that isnt quite low enough to qualify for top up universal credit, but not high enough to cover nursery fees than I can see why you would have no choice.

We are now nearly finished primary school with our two kids and it’s really now you see the differences in families where both parents stayed working. Two income families are enjoying a much better standard of living - holidays, upsizing houses and so forth. It’s short term pain for long term gain, and I think it’s incredibly important for equity in the parents’ relationship too.

Your last two points are really depressing if you find motherhood that boring why bother.

When DC needed childcare I wasn't responsible for 100% of the bill from my wages, so we both were slightly worse off than before children rather than only me being worse off.

This is true as well of course. It isn't just one person's bill. However, we worked out that if one of us stayed at home we would save a bit of money so it made sense in the short term and none of the terrible consequences of having a career break have come to fruition for me

Depends whether you have a “career” and will be further forward by staying in work. Personally I’d have earned about a tenner per day and at the end of all the sacrifice I would have been in exactly the same situation, with the same prospects, same salary, no further forward. So it wasn’t worth it for me to make the sacrifice. My friend stayed in work because her employer actually gave a shit and she benefited from the extra five years work experience and got promoted.

I've just had to leave my job for these reasons. When I went back from maternity leave I was financially exactly the same as if I wasn't working. That was fine because I was maintaining a job and I thought nursery would be good for DC.

6 months later nursery fees went up by £200 a month, which obviously put me £200 worse off a month and there was no way I was going to put us both into extreme poverty just to maintain that job.

When the cap is raised on the amount you can claim back on childcare later this year it will balance out again, but then what's to stop nursery hiking their prices again.

DC stopped eating and sleeping when he went to nursery and is now happy again. For those reasons I will wait now until he's 3 before I go back.

I basically worked for fuck all when the dc were both in nursery. But I was building a career, my pay increased each year and I would have had to start again if I'd taken time out. We're finally coming to the end of around 13 years of paid childcare now, but it only took a couple of years to start to see the benefit of staying in work. I'd like to think the pension will be worth it, but I suspect I'll either be dead by the time I'm allowed to take it, or there will be some reason there's fuck all in it.

And yes, we both took a hit, but it's easier to think about the effect when you work out that it's effectively one person's wages. I guess you could equally say dh was working for nothing.

I asked this on another thread. It was pointed out the positives of progression, pension, etc, which I do get, but this presumes the mum can get a job with prospects that will pay enough for decent pension contributions.

I do wonder if a very modest pension amount will actually be detrimental and cut out additional help in older age and leave them yet again struggling. We know governments cannot be trusted with pensions.

When my DC were young, it certainly didn't pay. We were so strapped that every penny counted. We lived in an isolated area. The best job I found was cleaner in a country pub, so no progression, no prospects. We had an assessment done by the job centre, and they advised against taking it as after running a car, we would be worse off. The job centre was very reasonable in those days.
I couldn't get a job that paid enough to pay into pension as well. No compulsory pension back then.
I only knew one woman who had a job and could afford childcare. She was a professional, living in a big house. The rest of us lived on a small council estate, and the majority were either 1 parent working or totally unemployed. The council estate was built when local farms employed labourers, they didn't anymore.

I ended up as a carer for my elderly GPs and got a full-time job when they passed, and my youngest was mid teens. We had moved by then too so that I could get a job.

I never understand why people spout this nonsense. If you both earn £1k and one person pays £900 childcare, your household income is £1100. If you both earn £1k and each pay £450 childcare, your household income is still £1100.

Lots of people view it in the way you do, but lots of people view it as losing time with their young child for nothing.

It just depends on individual circumstances I think.

Personally I carried on working and chose to find a new job when I was made redundant even though we could afford for me to stay home. For me, financial independence is a big reason.

You never know what's going to happen. If DP was taken ill or made redundant or left me, I'd have to run a household and get a job. It's much easier to just stay in work IMO.

Does it validate you in some way to be a dick?
There is nothing depressing about sometimes wanting to be around adults. We should all be well rounded individuals with a circle wider than just our spouse and children.

And where did the OP say she found motherhood boring? Or her kids boring?

Implying someone shouldn’t be a mother because they find it mentally stimulating to be around adults is not only a pretty rude comment but it’s just false.

I agree with you about other values.

I became a LP when ds was a year old.

I took a job that I loved but it was very poorly paid. Earned less than childcare.

Precarious few years relying on tax credits.

Once ds started school I was better off because I earned more but also childcare costs reduced.

Still didn't rake it in!

I now earn twice as much, have a degree, could be earning more if I worked FT (I can only do PT as ds is disabled).

I have more left over a month now than I had coming in 17 years ago. I also have a great set of friends, a career. A pension. And a job I can switch to do FT if it ever gets to the point ds can care for himself better.

I'm not going to deny that when I use to walk around Aldi with a calculator to food shop there weren't moments if I wondered if it was worth it working for no more than I'd have on benefits and get to be home with ds.

But I've gained so much from working personally I'm glad I didn't ever give in.

But I do think it's a shame that the jobs that worked well for parents (usually mums) like a 10-2 supermarket shift don't exist nowadays.

Zero hours contracts and a huge childcare cost rose have been the perfect storm imo.

We had household finances. As a household we were £9 a day worse off when i worked compared to if I had stayed at home. This was for a 2 year period when we had two of nursery age.

Not everyone can afford to make a £9 a day loss today to keep career open or pension contributions, which actually for some people are really small. I earned about 1.8 times minimum wage so there were people who would have been making a bigger loss each day.

The benefit for me where sharing burden on earning between us so DH didnt feel put upon. It was a buffer when he was made redundanant and I kept an up to date reference but those cost 4kish in total which was worth it for me.

That's measuring "standard of living" on a very monetary scale. It is going to be very different for different families, so what works best for one family may not work best for another, but sometimes those with one parent not working have gained substantially from their time.

I work part-time and earn much less than DH, and there is no problem with equity in our relationship. We contribute different things.

Although I won't dispute that it is sometimes hard to get back in after a career break, I have seen some people who have gone back after a substantial career break and quickly regained ground. One went from TA (to get her hand back in) to teacher to deputy head in just a few years, after more than a decade out.

Oops when I said 10 hours for £20 I meant 10 hour days so £20 a day better off.

To the person who said why have kids if I find motherhood so boring, as I said I worked 3 days per week so 30 hours at work and the other 138 being a mother 😂 And yes, I was bored to tears at times during those 138 hours and happy to have some time when I was something other than a parent. Guess you love being with your kids 24/7/365, good for you.

Lots say it as they have no wish to return to work.
A woman was on this morning moaning about 1 child costing over £2k a month for childcare no idea why it cost so much, I can only assume it involves long unsocial hours.

Most people get help with childcare costs, and whilst moaning they also put their dog in doggy daycare which costs more than their childcare.