To think that all children should be heard reading individually at school everyday

[Reallytired]

My son's infant school no longer listens to individual readers. The arguement is that its very time consuming and it does not require a skilled person to listen to a child practice reading. Instead the children do group reading once a week with the teacher.

My objection is that my son's best friend's mother cannot read. She can't read because English is her fourth language. She is attending a remedial literacy course, but her six year old son can read better than his mother.

I think its disgusting that nothing is being done to give the little boy the individual practice he needs. I think that more LSAs should be employed to listen to children read. I agree it does not require a teaching qualification to hear reading, but it does require the ablity to read yourself.

Christie on Thu 14-Feb-08 18:30:07
"Reallytired, most of the examples you give of money being "frittered" seem to be in the area of ICT.
I was subject leader for ICT at my school for nine years and things change very rapidly in that area and it is important to keep abreast of new developments."

Why? These things will have changed so many times by the time they get to start work: why was it important that they learnt every new system on the way? What they learn now, they won't be able to use anyway. As for being computer literate- well, all of us oldies have managed that anyway, haven't we?

Speaking as a university teacher, I see very little good for our students in the current obsession with ICT skills. It encourages plagiarim at the expense of thinking skills.

A new ICT skill can usually be picked up in a matter of weeks by an adult who needs it. That's how we all learnt ours.

The best programmers and programme inventors around today weren't learning computer skills as 4 yos.

It would be far better to spend these resources, and the receptive years, on things that take longer to learn, such as reading skills, mental maths and foreign languages. And above all, thinking skills.

And I'm somebody who's more or less surgically attached to my own computer. Not at all a luddite. I just think the early years could be better employed.

And reading to an adult once or twice a week-once a day may be unrealistic- sounds like it should be a top priority. I'm surprised they can get away with never doing it, seeing all the paper work they are supposed to fill in on the progress of every individual child.

Good post, Cory.

I think my ds learned to read by sight TBH. I can't really remember him sounding out a word, although he did learn it all, and his spelling is what his teacher calls 'phonetically plausible' ie you have to say the word aloud to know what he's on about! But in terms of teaching children who do not make progress with reading we have found phonics to be by far the most effective method, and frankly, saying "this letter makes the sound..." sits better with younger children.

The best way to learn to read is by reading, reading, reading, and one on one is vital. On its own, without specific reading issues, it's enough. The other practices mentioned hamster may be vital but aren't enough.

Think of children whose home language is not English. They cannot read at home every night and a group reading session once a week is not enough for them. One on one helps less confident readers too. And it's not fair for children whose parents DO read with them every night to lose out on teacher time to those whose parents don't or can't. So every child should have one on one, and faster readers should be able to move up the reading tree as they improve, and not wait until year 2 (say) for the year 2 books. It is not difficult and I have no idea why it is controversial.

Well said indeed!

I agree with what you say about ICT, Cory, but you have to remember that for a lot of schools the money that they spend on new computer equipment is often specifically ringfenced by the government for that purpose and they would not be allowed to spend it on employing staff. I sit on the finance committee of our school's governing body, and believe me, we make sure that every penny is spent in the best interests of the children.

I was an infant teacher in the days before the national curriculum, and hearing young children read regularly involved extended periods of free play (integrated day) for the rest of the class so the individual child could have the teacher's undivided attention. We had 1 TA for the whole school and she was only involved with the children who were special needs. Even then most children were heard 3 times a week at the most, good readers maybe only once.

With the pressures of the curriculum as it is today, daily reading would be an impossibility especially with only 2 adults to a class of 30 but I do think kids such as the one who the op describes need to be targetted for extra individual reading in school.

I think that bring back extended periods of free play would benefit the children. I get the impression that the year 1 curriculum is fairly rigid and frigid. Although my son is achieving well, he is not really ready for the formal structure of year 1.

I would like TAs and teachers to provide a more play based curriculum. I think it would produce better results even if there was not more indvidualised reading.

In a lot of countries children don't start school until seven years old, yet they do better academically than us at 15.

However a play based curriculum requires a lot of adults.

agree there should be a lot more play - dd is year one and it is crazily formal and academic anfd it really doesn't suit her

assuming that there are 30 chilren in the class, and that they all read to the teacher for 10 minutes each. That is 5 hours a day. The teaching day would be taken up with listening to children read,.

A child with EAL should reasonably be expected to have extra provision made for them. That is a different issue to having all children read to the teacher every day.

I sort of see where you are coming from reallytired and have gone through phases of worrying about how little reading DS got in school. But of course he reads to us daily. And now I am rather blase about it because we are 5 days short of his 7th birthday and the issue we have is stopping him reading so that he can fit in mundane things like dressing, eating, sleeping etc. But at the beginning of year 1 (and I remember twig's thread) when he hadn't quite clicked with reading and he was just doing guided reading, no individual reading I was a bit . And then when a few weeks in he started getting it but was still getting sent home with really easy books despite what I wrote in his record I was again. This year he reads on a Thursday lunchtime to either the TA or the teacher.

But, of course, DS is not disadvantaged - his mother has an english degree (despite appearances ). So I think maybe resources would be better concentrated on the likes of your DS's friend - making sure he reads to someone. But not sure I would have said that before DS clicked with reading when I was suffering typical, unnecessary PFB angst.

Yes it's difficult for a teacher to do it, but I honestly think 5 minutes with a teacher assistant or a parent is not difficult. I have seen it achieved with good will, success and lack of pressure for the children. The reading age of the whole class goes up. Somebody made a good point that the children read all day anyway -- which is why the general education level of the whole class goes up when they can all understand the reading around topics which is expected of them during the day. There's so much less pressure involved when it's not a teacher or the child's parent.

There have been quite bitter threads on MN where people have objected to their child being listened to by 'just a helper' (their term not mine).

there have been even longer threads complaining that helpers have writen comments in the reading record. One of those things where the school will never please everyone.

Far less money is spent in early years education than secondary education. Yet what is taught in the early years of school is the most important of all. Are we doing our children a diservice by spending less on a foundation stage child than a secondary school child?

In deprived areas it is not always obvious which kids need the extra help. A lot of adults with reading problems are too ashamed to admit it.

Some schools have a high percentage of children with EAL, special needs, social problems and its no surprise that certain schools are bottom of the league tables.

My son's school has a lot of EAL children, children with special needs and social problems. A lot of the children live below the povety line.

Schools in challenging areas need substantially smaller classes. Or alternatively the middle class schools need to be forced to take their fair share of difficult children.

Well you know what KM I agree with you, non native English speakers should try to learn the language I guess. But it's not always that simple, and when other children in the class are slower with their reading and comprehension the whole class slows.

MB I know you're right about people moaning about helpers reading with their child, I've come across this too and I find it a bit immature.

On the point of comments in books -- parent readers can just put smiley faces in books or a well done, all they need to do is encourage and help. They can be asked by a teacher not to write "assessment" type comments. But it seems somebody's always putting an obstacle in the way when it just takes a bit of give and take and acceptance on both sides. When literacy rates are sliding the way they are now I'm amazed people object to their children reading to another mum.

I put positive comments in the journal because at our school there were murmours in the playground about the lack of feedback . You can't win can you.

"I'm amazed people object to their children reading to another mum."

I don't have a problem with that most of the time but do object when the person hearing my child read tells them such things as the word 'nothing' being "nuffin" when asked what the word says.

Has that happened to you juule? I can understand you objecting. But with a parent rota those things would be outweighed by the amount of reaading practice your child gets. What happened to your child is an indictment of reading standards these days. If we give in and stop reading one to one it will only get worse. I am also a big fan of older children listening to younger children read. I have seen "naughty" unhappy readers read willingly and with effort to "naughty" Year 6 children and both benefit. Where the younger child feels pressure with a teacher or parent, that dissipates. The older child learns responsibility and patience. Not on a regular basis, but every now and then to get over little obstacles that get in the way of willingness to read.

It's unrealistic to say that reading at home with a well-intentioned parent, or with a teacher, is always free of feelings of pressure, disappointment and frustration. A good, full, parent and TA reading rota can do so much to prevent these getting in the way of happy and improving reading.

I suppose you are right. Things like that happening are a little unsettling, though, and made me realise that I didn't really know what was happening during my child's day at school.