Euthanasie, dont legalise in UK.

[MrsMarkieParkie]

I just read that 8% of deaths in Canada last year happened via euthanasia. This doesnt sit right with me. Also, as described in the article, the protocol seems mostly the same as the US death by lethal injection.
Do we want this in the UK?

Yes absolutely - and I do think it will become an option. But what I also want is continuing improvement around safeguarding, counselling and delivery. Whatever we start with will not be perfect and we need to ensure it remains a focus of how to ensure it is really a personal choice and what’s best for the person. I know many who do want it and a few who are very against it ands it’s is important that those who object are also listened to and not excluded from the conversation as they may see problems that those in favour don’t.

A Canadian doc on this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=plinQAHZRvk

@MrsMarkieParkie

it works in other countries, Holland, Switzerland, that’s why people go to Switzerland. We treat out animals better than humans dying in agony and the most horrific deaths.

it can be done well

And how much inheritance are you expecting from your dog? Can't compare the two.

If you'd asked me this 5 years ago I would have been vehemently against it.
Then a cancer diagnosis changed my views. I'm all clear now but for a while I was desperately planning an "exit strategy" rather than face a long slow death.
So I think for certain people with very short life expectancy it should be a choice.

So I think for certain people with very short life expectancy it should be a choice Even more so for those with a long life expectancy and no quality of life, surely?

https://www.lemonde.fr/m-le-mag/article/2023/04/07/au-quebec-les-medecins-au-c-ur-de-l-aide-a-mourir-c-est-mon-devoir-d-accompagner-les-gens-de-leur-naissance-a-leur-mort-j-ai-l-impression-de-boucler-la-boucle_6168591_4500055.html

this is the article I guess. OP do you have a share token?

So does that mean we can give poor people a choice? Or is that just money saving by the government? It’s not really about inheritance it’s about people who will suffer wanting to make a choice about when to die.

Alrighty, I’ll bite. I’ve looked after hundreds of people in their last days of life; some have been peaceful and some have not. Some have begged me to let them go. Who are you to say they shouldn’t be allowed to go in peace with some help? I sincerely hope euthanasia is legalised in the UK in my lifetime.

I see the OP hasn't been back. Probably because they can't provide good quality arguments on why people should be allowed choice.

Everywhere I can find says 3% of deaths in Canada were by Euthanasia, rather than the 8% in the OP.

In the UK, you instead have terminally ill people making up a large percentage of suicide statistics- why is that preferable?

The 3% was 2021. The article linked few posts back says a probable 8% in Québec in 2022, so not the whole of Canada.

"By the end of the year, 8% of deceased Quebecers should have used medical assistance in dying, authorized by law since 2014. This is the subject of a social consensus that is not surprising in France in view of the cleavages that have agitated the public debate, on the sidelines of the work of the citizens' convention on the end of life." (Google translate)

The 8% seems to be those in Quebec who should have had access to assisted dying. It’s not entirely clear if that means those who could have been eligible or those who actually used it.

There’s also nothing in the preview article about the method. I’d be amazed if it is the same as that used for the death penalty in the US as the drugs involved in that are becoming impossible to get hold of due to the manufacturers not wanting them to be used in executions.

So without the article it’s impossible to actually discuss what the OP is talking about…

I think that's really encouraging I'd like to see it greater than 8%. That's 8% of people who are sick and dying getting to chose to die painlessly when, where and how they wish.

I hate that we allow people to die in agony, scared and alone in a state that we consider it to be cruel to allow a pet to die in. Bring it on I say!

Around 650 people suffering terminal illness commit suicide in the UK every year plus 50 or so go to dignitas.

In the Netherlands where euthanasia/ physicians assisted suicide is long established it makes up 4.5% of death the vast majority of whom are suffering from terminal cancer. Dementia sufferers make up only 3% of assisted deaths and have to be medically considered to be suffering unbearably.

I don’t think we as a country are suddenly going to kill off a generation of old people to save on care costs/ preserve inheritance.

There was a Star Trek TNG episode along these very lines. “Half a Life” it was called, about a society where, upon reaching a certain age people were expected, regardless of their actual state of health, to commit ritual suicide surrounded by their families and children so that they would not become a burden. This ritual suicide was called the Resolution.

My family die of cancer. It's painful, prolonged and traumatic. We should be allowed to die with ease and peace, it is barbaric that we have to suffer.

I am 100% behind the introduction of euthanasia in the UK.

Indeed, and the heartbreaking thing is that a lot of those suicides happen "too soon" because if you know you are on the way out but you can't rely on medical assistance, you make it happen while you still have physical capacity. With reliable assistance some of those suicides could have had another year of reasonably good quality of life that could make a real difference (enough to survive for one more family Christmas, a graduation or a birth of a grandchild) safe in the knowledge that you don't need to take action while you still have enough independence to do so.

There are actual reports on MAID in Canada. A lot of misinformation in this thread.

Here is the actual report https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/hc-sc/documents/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021/annual-report-2021.pdf

And the idea that there are no safeguards is nonsense. A quick google search takes you to the pages detailing the safeguarding measures. https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/ad-am/bk-di.html

If I was offered this for my mam, I would definitely take up the offer.

she is end stage Alzheimer’s and suffers every day. She can do absolutely nothing for herself. She can’t talk. Can’t say when she’s in pain or if she needs anything. It’s horrific.

would you honestly want this for your relative? We don’t let animals suffer, why should we let our elderly or terminally ill. It’s a disgrace.

Legalise it or legalise all drugs for people with less than six months to live. If I were in pain, if I can’t die then at least I can be on drugs that will change the experience.

I 100% think euthanasia should be an option for those with terminal illnesses and I think it's absolutely tragic that in the UK it's illegal

Another here who agrees with the idea in principle, but worries about the potential for coercion - and not just by families keen for their inheritance, once government work out just how much it could save

Remembering how much some were prepared to give up to "save the NHS" during Covid, I wouldn't want to assume that everyone would resist the killing off of the elderly "for the sake of everyone else", and once an idea's out there it can be hard to stop

You can't euthanise a dog without a vet's agreement. Euthanasia would be under supervision by doctors. No-one is getting free rein to bump off grandma when they need a house deposit.

@Puzzledandpissedoff but that hasn't happened in those countries where it has been introduced with proper safeguards. So that's basically whataboutery. The Dutch government is pretty right with and has been for some considerable time (though not as right wing as our shower of shit, I grant you) and there's been no wholesale bumping off of the elderly.