To think growing up poor can result in more fear of risk?

[ForestOfTea]

I grew up in the 80s in a household full of love but intermittently lacking in money (with retrospect, based on the amount of baked beans consumed, probably lacking in money more than I realised at the time)

Growing up I was always anxious about loosing things, as mum was clear they couldn’t be replaced, so I was super careful with school jumpers/pens etc.

Now I am older and have a good income, but still have a great fear about loosing things which I’ve realised is disproportionate to others- for example, on the beach I worry about leaving things unattended, whilst friends who grew up richer happily leave stuff.

This extends to other things too- I need to get to trains etc with plenty of time, even though if I missed it now I could afford to buy another ticket.

And to job opportunities- if there is an amazing job with a higher salary but it’s a fixed term contract, I am afraid to leave the stability of my lower (but still well-paid) job whilst colleagues who grew up richer jump at the opportunity, sure of parental parachutes/other opportunities.

Or, rather than being a remnant of growing up poor, is this just ‘me’ and I’d be risk-adverse regardless?

Definitely. I’ve met several men who made a lot of money in risky tech start-ups that went well, and something they all had in common was wealthy parents. They could afford to throw several years of money and effort into something that might flop because the safety net was always there. Now they boast about how you “have to take risks in life.”

My parents were very tight for money and while I buy my share of tat, I’m extremely risk-averse in my life choices.

Completely! I grew up in a well off house. (I was about to write comfortable but that would show we were pretty well off!)
I realised the other day that I don't fear boring jobs because I will just leave. And because I will get another job soon enough and everything will be fine. Because it always has. In my early 20s I had a few years of a series of temping jobs. Sometimes I was short on the rent and paid for petrol by cheque because it gave me 3 days to find the money. I used my overdraft but always paid it back. Life was text book hand to mouth but it didn't really stress me out. I felt like there was always a safety net for my trappeezing!

DH grew up in a council house. His family aren't poor but they were less secure. And it shows. He is bored in his job. He could become a contractor and take much more interesting jobs. But he is thinking on making sure DC and I and the house are safe. It isn't worth the risk. Whereas I think he should because being bored 9hours a day is not worth it.

It’s certainly true, although I find the middle class attitudes, that it is somehow wrong to have fear of risk, extremely annoying. Most of the world is not western middle class - ergo it is their attitude towards risk that is the unhealthy one. Time and age has something to do with it too - risk and risk takers only started to be worshipped in the late 80s and especially in the 90s.

Yes and no. It can make people go the other way as nothing to loose. I know both types and wealthy people fearful of loosing their money and scared to take risks

My DH grew up relatively poor (central European country during Communism) and is very risk averse when it comes to spending, buying anything on credit etc., is much more of a saver than I am (my parents are financially comfortable and to my knowledge this was the case for my whole childhood). So I think it can definitely have an impact.

I really want to have your outlook @Whattodonut - it would make life so much nicer. And ironically due to saving/ working continuously since age of 14/not expanding my lifestyle/expectations as I’ve weren’t more I am (nearly) at the stage where I could, in theory, ‘insure’ myself and be my own safety net…. But instead I find myself investing in another safety harness to keep attached to the trapeze!

Depends on personality - both DH and I grew up extremely poor. I am a careful worrying risk-averse type and he is a 'fuck it I never had spare money or a safety net as a child so why not enjoy it now' type (subconsciously, mostly).

I suppose it's true for some but I grew up in similar circumstances and I wouldn't say I was risk adverse, infact, in my twenties and thirties my risk taking behaviour leaned between bold and reckless and I'm terrible at losing stuff.

I guess my childhood taught me that being poor wouldn't be the end of my world. Each time I rolled the dice I was confident I could start again from scratch if required.

I have become more conservative about risk as I've aged but that has far more to do with the deleterious effect of living with a chronic illness which bites more and more as the years go by.

I grew up poor and am very risk averse too. I can’t even play the lottery. Possibility of a life changing sum for a couple of quid. All I can see is the giving up of money for nothing in return.

Funny you should think that. My upbringing was threadbare to say the least.

Now I'm late 50s with a house and a pension fund, and generally financially secure. It's 35 years since money was really tight yet I've spent this morning forcing myself to throw out 10yo T-shirts that are too small.

I still can't help feeling reluctant. There's always the feeling in the back of my mind that I might need them one day. 🙄

NCed as tiny bit outing. OP, I'm interested in asking you about the flipside. Would you rather have a secure attachment to love or money? I would choose love in a heartbeat. I know some have both and some have none but I'm just curious.

I grew up wealthy. As they grew up poor, my parents purposely emphasised a secure attachment to money, food, material things, etc for me. I didn't realise this was what they were doing, but in secure attachment language, it was!

They provided generous pocket money like clockwork, continually emphasised that we would always have more than enough, always funded any interests and extracurriculars of mine without question, urged me not to start working too soon as I had plenty of time left in life before joining the rat race, encouraged me to invest and leverage, made sure I embarked on jobs I found interesting and stimulating – and had long-term high earning potential rather than immediate returns only in the short-term, etc. They always told me life is too short to worry about money.

I had a very lucrative and exclusive degree from a top uni, but I chose to spend years temping around in a minimum wage field... Was barely affording rent (and often late in payments) but not bothered, was also happy to maintain a very expensive long distance relationship in an expensive city across the world, just because (and ended up marrying the person, still deeply in love to this day). When I found the industry I loved and which paid well (even better than my degree field), I embarked on it and no regrets to this day.

I also don't get people who boast about being wealthy/signs of wealth (I assure you that's not what I'm doing here, you'll see in the next paragraph) or feel ashamed about not having money. Basically I couldn't give a toss about it.

However, I know this sounds ungrateful but... I wish my parents had done this with love instead! My parents have always been extremely affectionate and doted on us, but sometimes absent and turbulent when I was younger, especially in my teen years. I recently realised how preoccupied people in society generally are with money, which made me reflect on my secure relationship/non-relationship with it. Imagine if that applied to relationships as well. How amazing would it be if I felt that unconditionally wonderful romantic, friendship and other relationships were my birthright, and would always sort themselves out no matter what?!

So I was just wondering about your perspective as someone who grew up with lots of love! Or is it an imaginary utopia and I'm just hankering after non existent greener grass? Practically speaking, which would you rather?

Exactly. For most people, this isn't a question of avoiding risk when that's not necessary. It's about avoiding risk as the sensible response to their situation.

People who grew up poor and are now comfortable are in an intermediate position. I earn above average, but as you come into your 40s and 50s the risks are still higher if there isn't a safety net of wider family wealth or inheritance.

Risk taking can bring huge rewards. Unfortunately for societies that are becoming less and less equal, it's taking risk with money you can spare that fuels big fortunes. That's not a model for everyone else to follow.

I would work on what would make you feel financially secure, OP - pension, life insurance, plan B for a career change. Then you may feel better about taking appropriate risks, but your instincts aren't wrong.

Risk averse behaviours are often good choices for social cohesion and the natural environment too.

Yes, likewise re health.

Invest in your health if you can, as a risk averse approach to life, OP.

Well, I achieved my chronic illness through a crappy genetic hand, but go on, feel free to use it as a cautionary tale if you like.

Yes, definitely.

It's all about the safety net.

My dad came from a low income background. He has done very well for himself but he is very risk averse and could have done much better if he had a safety net.

However, not only did he have nobody to rely on but himself, but he also had the burden of having to be in a position to support elderly parents. He had a good relationship with them and did not at all grudge having to support them in their later years, but as well as care he had to provide a level of financial help. Which, again, he was happy to do, but I was a late teen at this time and he was also helping to support me through university. So it was a lot all on him.

People who not only don't have to support others (such as parents, I don't mean kids) but also have them to fall back on financially, have a much greater capacity to take risk.

People I know from wealthy families are able to take the hit on things like a year out travelling, starting new businesses etc, working unpaid or lowly paid internships for experience / exposure, whereas people without this level of support behind them can't afford to take a loss - if they are working, it needs to be in a secure job that can support them, and this limits their opportunities.

I'd say I fall somewhere in the middle. I had a lot of support from my dad, but, as I say, he was also supporting his parents, so it wasn't to the degree that others from wealthier backgrounds have.

I would like to build upon this for my kids, and give them a background and base which allows for them to follow passion projects and take risks etc, but I am of the generation where it's harder to do better than our parents, due to house prices and cost of living and various issues. We are doing ok and we do own our own home (albeit with a mortgage on a high interest rate and the house being very small) but whether we will be able to provide this safety to our kids...who knows. I hope so but it's hard.

I work in education. Your point tallies with what my colleagues and I have observed over a number of years. However, I think there's a link with security in childhood too. Some of this may be financial but some of it is emotional.

Nature still plays a part but I think it's in a way that is less significant the wealthier you are (fewer consequences for the risks taken).

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/how-poverty-affects-peoples-decision-making-processes

I recommend reading this summary of research on the subject

I think the baby boomers generation had a three fold appetite for risk:

1. lots of them grew up very poor - food poverty was not unusual. Poverty was normalised and not sooooo scary. Squatting was even a lot more normal in the 1960/1970s than now, and penalties were less.
2. Expectation of extreme wealth was low in their early days.... Its easier to risk at the outset if you have very little to lose and you are not afraid of poverty.
3. The risk returns were immense, many of them experienced extreme wealth as a result of rising inflations/house prices increases in 60s and 70s.......this set them up for later life. The world was also less regulated, less draconian tax systems. It was easier to be a self propelled entrepreneur.

That was sorta my parents experience and they passed on the blind faith of just get stuck in, to me. Also start young, front load your working and wealth accumulation strategy..... And for me.... even parenting and you ll be more comfortable in later life. All of that is a bit risky.

There was some truth to it, but wider economical changes also have a massive impact, beyond personal ambition or work ethic.

The self made entrepreneurs I see these days are tech start ups, they can apply for a lot of state subsidies and they are more regulated too.

Nope I grew up poor and learnt to be careful with my possessions and how to budget and get the best value out of every penny.
As a result although DH and I have only earned average salaries, we have managed to have a nice house, good holidays and retire early in our late 50’s.

I am often really shocked at how much money people waste.

It's hard to be risk averse when you have truly nothing to lose.
It's easier to be risk relaxed when you know your basic needs will definitely be met.

I would say that the most risk averse people are the most perfectionist & idealistic. They beat themselves up over their perceived failures so there's a huge emotional cost in the risks they tolerate. They tend to believe that it is possible to prevent types of risks that aren't preventable, and that they are morally deficient if they don't prevent or instantly manage them.

I grew up poor ( although didn't really realise) now I need to keep a really well stocked cupboard and full freezers. I hate running out of things.

People I know from wealthy families are able to take the hit on things like a year out travelling, starting new businesses etc, working unpaid or lowly paid internships for experience / exposure, whereas people without this level of support behind them can't afford to take a loss - if they are working, it needs to be in a secure job that can support them, and this limits their opportunities.

@wellhi I know and am related to people who aren't wealthy who have allowed their young adult children take a year out travelling, work unpaid or lowly paid internships. The main thing is the parents are still working, they have only 1-2 children, live in the right area for their child's career so their child can live at home, and can see that their child has a chance to get a much better paid job than them.

Of course this is true.

I grew up in the late 90’s early 00’s a house full of love but lacking funds. I vividly remember my aim for my future life being ‘to not have to check the bank machine before going into the supermarket and having to mentally keep track of the total as we go around’

That day came and was well exceeded. DH and I have a 5 bed detached and a generous savings account but Omg I cannot shake the mindset I grew up with and it’s shaped my life so heavily. DH grew up very middle class (summers on the Italian Rivera kinda family) we couldn’t even afford a haven trip every year 😂 we have so many foundational differences and he doesn’t understand at all.

• I hate food waste
• I’m not adventurous with foods (we had £20 a week to feed our family so trying stuff and not liking it was a massive risk
• I’m mostly veggie - never got used to handling or cooking meat that wasn’t frozen
• neither me or my sibling drink. Our parents couldn’t afford to so we never saw alcohol as a thing really.
• I control finances and have spread sheets, nothing is taking me by surprise.
• I stock pike. If it’s on a great deal I’ll buy 5. We never run out of anything and if we get close I get panicky.
• We always have plenty in. I have two big kitchen cupboards dedicated to food and a large double American fridge freezer.
• I would rather go to 3 shops for best prices than pay an extra £20 to get it all from one.
• I can, and do, always find a discount code shopping online.
• I quietly despair at the amount we spend and often hold back comments like ‘does it come with a car?!?!’
• I walk around turning lights/heating off and natter about wasting it.
• I make a conscious effort not to overindulge or massively spoil the kids. I want them to appreciate the value of stuff.
• I want to take pack ups on days out. I’ll buy ice creams and chips sure but £70 for a crap meal in a tourist trap…no way.
• I limit us to take outs once a month - I say it’s for health reasons but it’s also cost.
• It takes me ages to actually buy big items and I hate paying for delivery. Currently need a double storage unit from ikea but I’ve been ‘thinking about it’ for literally months because the delivery is £50!!! Omg - can’t collect it though.
• I CANNOT process the cost of holidays. I’m going to spend £500 to go to Hagen with the toddlers this summer and it feels like a lot but they deserve a holiday so I’ll do it. DH wants to go to Disney parks. Out of interest I said let’s both price it up. Mine was £8.5k for 2 weeks term time in a lower mid range hotel including flights and park tickets. I was shocked but maybe if it was the only ‘big’ holiday for a few years I could get my head around it. DH came back at £22k for the same amount of time…because he wanted to stay at the grand Floridian. I almost fainted.
• I’m very contentious and an avid rule follower
• I’m super careful in life, don’t take risks and am very responsible because I didn't have a parent safety net to bail me out.
• I followed a safe career rather than my ‘dream’.
• When dating, I prioritised financial stability and security (I didn’t go after rich or flashy I’m not a gold digger just someone who had a decent and stable income with good prospects) largely leaning towards professions like teachers, doctors, accountants, engineers, IT. Something that would always be employable.

Growing up like I did has entirely created who I am. The funny thing is back then I always thought money would make me happier and I would love and enjoy spending it but now I have plenty and it mostly just makes me anxious 😬

Thanks @curlykate99 thats really interesting- only read the executive summary so far but will definitely read all later. I think the JRF do lots of great work.

@Thehonestbadger so much of what you wrote could be me! My DH despairs of me going to multiple shops and is continually saying ‘think of your hourly rate, how is going to multiple shops worth it?’ When my thought process is that unless I’d actively be billing for my time instead of going to the multiple shops it is worth it!

@candieland love over money certainly, and I can definitely see how a lack of love from parents could cause long term problems, but I don’t think lots of love makes you sure you will have love in the future, only that you will have love from your parents in the future.

I also think the whole insecurity associated with from not coming from money is getting worse, as increasingly wealth is more important than what you are earning- for example, say you earn £80,000 but have no family money for a deposit, you are less able to get on the housing ladder than someone earning £40,000 but with parents able to donate deposit.