To think that universities giving out unconditionals/nominal offers to everyone just devalues even going or having a degree

[Saygoodday]

DS is applying this year. He’s applied to and got offers from a mixture: 2 RG’s, 2 that require BBC and one post 1992 university that has given him an unconditional offer. Obviously not everyone can be ultra academic and there is a place for vocational qualifications and courses with lower entry requirements within the university system, this is not a case of snobbery or advocating that all universities should require four As. However, Lincoln this year has seemingly given out unconditional offers to literally anyone who has applied, I recently saw another university that would make offers for LLB (hons) Law for 64 UCAS points, etc. Lincoln in particular, it’s about an hour from me, has become a favourite for kids who’ve done no work for their a levels who know they will still get into uni. It’s not just Lincoln there are a big number who will take students basically with any results. To me it doesn’t feel at all fair that those who’ve done no work should get the same qualifications as someone who gets A’s. It feels like it just devalues the whole idea of going to university and getting a degree if you can just get one despite being on for terrible grades in your a-levels. Aibu?

Sickening bit of classism in the 'first generation enrolling to family fanfare' comment. On that basis I, for one, certainly feel less inclined to dismiss degrees at the sneered-at institutions even though I don't know enough to have an informed opinion on their standards. If I can't separate out informed views from snobbery I'll assume the latter.

No. It’s not.

In fact (speaking from experience), having coasted through school with top marks despite not doing any work in no way sets you up for success post-school. Quite the opposite actually. Turns out you have none of the skills required when it gets more
challenging. That is a very hard learning curve indeed.

Yes, how dare people be proud, hey?

https://www.aru.ac.uk/peterborough

Yes, the PP's comment was about universities in the 2000s.

The new university in Pboro is an extension of ARU. A branch if you will. There is no 'University of Peterborough'.

And , anyway, Peterborough getting university type education is a good thing. The area in general is underserved for local people who want HE.

Lots of foundation degrees for mature students or those with lower qualifications upskilling. Lots of vocational degrees. It's not a 'typical uni' threatening the OP's notions for her DS.

Oh and DD went to an open day at Queen Margaret uni near Edinburgh. The degree she wants to do - Primary Teaching - has basic entry requirements set by the teaching body for Scotland. So you won't get a place unless you have National 5 maths at a B grade at least, and Higher English.

But Queen Margaret also do a "theory of education" style degree which doesn't qualify you to be a teacher and they will take anyone. We don't usually talk about UCAS points in Scotland but in terms of A-levels they're looking for CCD. Total waste of time.

Oh dear OP. What a snob you're coming across as. I did a vocational degree. I could have done an academic one if I wanted because I had the ability. I wanted to the vocational course. It gave me exceptional employability skills, connections to industry and I've ended up in a VERY well paid job as a result. So there!

Here it’s Middlesex university. A senior nurses I know despairs every time she interviews groups of graduates from there. She once told me about how poor their literacy and numeracy were and I was shocked. She recently spoke about a recently-qualified nurse who she asked at interview about a clinical emergency on a ward and what she would do; the nurse answered, ‘Call 999’…

These low standards are appalling for the profession and for patient safety.

Yes also to the weird snobbishness of the assumed theoretical/vocational dichotomy. My eldest, very able (of the 'sailing along with top grades' type, which, as a PP pointed our, is not always a long-term advantage) is coming to the end of his schooling (not UK) and all the options he's currently looking at have a strong practical element. He wants something hands-on. Is considering vocational training followed by a degree later. Fortunately nobody in this country will sneer at him for taking that route.

My DD is at Lincoln studying a STEM subject. She did get an unconventional offer. Her initial offer was the standard course requirements of BBB so she was always going to put it as her insurance choice. All her other offers were AAB or ABB , so not hugely different to Lincoln’s requirements anyway. The course is accredited by the professional body for the subject the same as all the other universities she looked at. A few weeks before she made her decision Lincoln offered her an unconditional for either firm or insurance. She actually liked Lincoln more than any other university but decided to put Birmingham as her first aspirational choice with Lincoln as insurance. She achieved BBB in the end anyway and is now at Lincoln and loving it. So for those of you saying that unconditional offers mean low quality students it is not always the case and I guess will depend on the course. My DD’s friends on her course all have similar grades the lowest grade was a C.

Aren't these nursing stories symptomatic of recruitment issues more than anything? Presumably, they are desperate for nurses, so there is pressure to get everyone through. Much like people passing PGCEs despite huge problems.

Yes it is. And of course the government is to blame for this. Until nursing is given decent pay and conditions, it will not attract the best applicants. So the bar gets lower and lower.

@SquidwardBound ’s post is very interesting indeed re: universities hiding work outcomes by funelling kids into teaching and social working post-grads that are irrelevant to their primary degrees.

Getting into uni doesn't equate to getting a first honours degree.

I'm glad more students are getting the chance to attend uni if they want and get higher level qualifications and aren't put off because someone told them at 13/14 to they wouldn't achieve.

Yes I guess so! It's worrying especially if there's a growing division between Doctors and Nurses. They need to work together!

@Piggywaspushed @Easterfunbun in the old days people didn’t need to obsesses over this - they got a job, and ended up with qualifications as they worked their way through.

The problem now is that because everyone has a degree it’s used as a filter, whether the job requires one or not! And the bar is raised… a degree is no longer enough, students need to have loads of extracurriculars etc. It’s all hothouse and doesn’t give people the time and space for intellectual exploring. Which is what it’s supposed to be! Not a factory producing good little worker bees.

We need an educated population, yes but that doesn’t mean and shoving them all into uni at 18 and handing them a diluted piece of paper at the end. It means, over time, they end up with at least an NVQ level 6. Which by the way isn’t just for ‘trades’, lots of ‘office jobs’ like operations, finance, HR, business management have them too.

I feel sorry for people now pushed into uni because of the lack of career advice and other options

Unfortunately there are some students who seem to think that once they have enrolled and paid, they are automatically entitled to a degree, preferably a first.

There is work.involved. I went to uni in the 90s which mumsnet will tell you was as easy to get in as falling asleep. Whilst I went on to get a respectable grade (but useless degreee) and then post grad stuff I was aware of friends who never completed their degrees, of friends scraping a pass etc. This still happens. The degrees might now be paid for but you still need to work. Of course they hand out unconditional offers when they see numbers dropping. They are profit focused.

The devaluing thing is interesting.

My son was offered a much lower offer for his STEM subject from a RG place that was rated seventh for his subject. They also offered him £1000 to put them first. I was delighted. He said that they sounded ‘desperate’ and ‘can’t be very good then’. He could not see that they really wanted him. It probably says something complicated about his self-esteem but I was surprised at how he took what they were offering him. And I confess I rolled my eyes a bit too.

It’s the type of work though.
Pop quizzes, ‘class participation’ where all you have to do is open your mouth, exams with questions copied from the text just the numbers changed.

Vs projects that require actual thinking, curated exam questions.

it’s not all equal.

Do you think when they enrol that they give them a 1:1 for turning up on day 1?

They'll let I anyone who wants to go, they'll charge them fees so they get a full years worth of money. They'll go to Uni for how long and either work and stay or drop out. After 3 years, the ones left will be graded appropriately and be given a grade based on their work in the last two years, not their a level results.

Universities set and mark their own work. Therefore a degree is not of a set standard. If the university take anyone it's easier to get your degree at that university. Universities should have to set external exams. A levels have become the gateway and most pressurised and stressful time for students and staff- and yet post 16 education funding is the lowest funded sector.

Oxford only gave EE offers to people who had sat and scored highly in their own entrance exam.