AIBU to think teachers are not paid that well in England and Wales

[ImaynotliketheEducationSecretary]

If salaries in England are so "good" why then are salaries in Scotland £9K higher?

If salaries are so good, why then apart from the NE and Scotland (who are on far better salaries) are teachers, 4-5 years post qualified, paid less than the average salary? If salaries are so good, why could so few teachers even think about buying a house? By the way, I by no means think teachers in Scotland are overpaid. I think they probably are paid far, far more fairly than E or W)

Do we really think so little of education that that is what teachers are paid? People who need degrees and post-grad qualifications to teach their subject? Who need passion and empathy to care about their students? Who do not just do 9-3 in the classroom - but, many, many hours outside the classroom too?

Read below and if you really think teachers salaries are so good, would you, on reading the below, encourage a friend/DC/sibling to join this well-paid profession?

Figures all from end of 2022:
M4 is what you could be earning c4-5 years after qualifying.

Scotland
Teachers Salary - Starting £30,081 & M4 £42,915
House Price average £191,492
6.3 x starting salary
4.5 x M4 salary

Average salary in Scotland in 2022 was £33K
Actually, you maybe OK being a teacher.

Wales
Teachers Salary - Starting £28,866 M4 £33,5877
House Price average £220,326
7.6 x starting salary
6.5 x M4 salary

Average salary in Wales in 2022 was £34K
You maybe OK to be a teacher - but only if you live in a cheaper part of Wales.

England
Teachers Salary - Starting £28,000 & M4 £33,850 ((M4 rising to £39,655 with inner London weighting)
House Price average £313,073 England (North East 162K, SE £402K London £542K)
On average, houses are 11 x starting salary and 9 x M4 salary
Ha ha ha ha if you are in London (13.5 x M4 salary) or South East (12 x M4)
NE teachers are possibly OK a few years later at 4.8 x M4 salary

Average salary in England in 2022 was £33K
North East £29.5K
SE £34.5K
London £42K

Don't be a teacher unless you are in the NE/somewhere cheap to live. How the fuck any London school recruits and retains staff is beyond me.

And, BTW, I am not a teacher. I just went down this rabbit hole as DD was talking of becoming a teacher post-degree....and having gone down said rabbit hole I am not sure I would recommend an extra 9K+ debt to do so. I don't really want her to move to Scotland (we are on the SW).

Unaffordable housing costs are not unique to teachers.

But I agree teachers an underpaid.

My daughter will be circa £55k in debt when she qualifies, once student loan, pension and other disbursements come out her income will be lower than I think she and other teachers deserve.

Teachers deserve to be paid fairly, but don’t your figures above show teachers make around the average salary. It highlights the issue with salaries vs house prices well, but this is a struggle that is not unique to teachers.

Teachers, along with lots of other roles, are underpaid everywhere

Its particularly bad in England because of the tories

People think teachers salaries are good because they are in comparison to their own, also underpaid role or because of the holidays (yes, yes, I know some teachers work some of the holidays and work lots of extra hours term time)

I agree but some race to the bottom twat will be along to start blathering on about how she pays the Mill owner for permission to come to work and Labour and the Unions spent all the money..........

I think their pay is quite sufficient. They have always complained about not being paid enough.

See

I now earn the equivalent of M4 + inner London weighting in a role for schools that is essentially admin. It’s mad, it requires no qualifications directly. I left teaching for it, it’s flexible and much less stress.

The inclusion of house prices was more an indicator that a £33K salary in say, the SE has different buying power to a £33K salary in Wales or the NE.

When I was growing up, teachers were viewed/paid/respected in line with doctors/bankers etc.

I think what makes me so angry is that surely, much of this lag in pay is because it is a female dominated profession?

Where do you get it from that most teachers can’t buy a house?

Issue us salaries are shit in lots of sectors & housing is ridiculous

Teachers are not paid anywhere near enough for all the shit they have to put up with.

Teachers, doctors and bankers have NEVER been paid similar!

Um, do you know mortgage lenders willing to lend 9 x salaries? 7 x salaries?

Do you have any ideas of what has caused the recruitment and retention crisis in teaching if you don’t think it’s pay related? How would you suggest we solve it?

So teachers should be on £78,500? Because that’s what 313 is x 4.

teachers won't be needed for much longer. Kids will have a brain implant and knowledge will be downloaded into their brains

And I’m not being an arse there. I do think teachers deserve a pay rise, but realistically, most people don’t buy houses alone. I know some do, but not in the SE on a single salary.

Two people earning £44,000 buying a £313 house is realistic.

When did you grow up that teachers were paid the same as doctors?!

I absolutely don't think that should be the case

As I mentioned above, I included the house prices to show the differences in costs of living. Rents would have similar disparities NE/London/Scotland for example.

But it applies to everyone on or below those wages

Not just teachers

All the teachers I know own their own homes, anyway.

It isn’t a sort of megabucks salary. It’s more a steady plod. I’m in favour of raising it but like I say, realistically it isn’t going to double overnight or anything.

the pension, maternity & sick pay is good as with most public sector jobs.

Incorrect

https://www.ft.com/content/abcb8b3e-7ece-11e3-a2a7-00144feabdc0

Entire groups have completely disappeared from the ranks of upper earners. In 1975, further education lecturers and teachers together made up almost one in 10 of the top 5 per cent of earners.

It’s not a huge amount, but it is a decent average salary. Pensions, parental leave, sick pay also have to be taken into account. If you compare to other jobs, it’s more than a refuse worker or care worker (no qualifications required), and similar (if not more) than an architect (extensive and expensive qualifications required). Those jobs are often unlikely to have good leave policies and pensions.