Arguing over child bedtime

[Nolongersureofmyself]

Hello all, please can I ask your advice. I have brought my five year old to visit his dad (abroad) for the Easter break. It was a long journey and jetlag is a factor as a result.

At home, five year old goes to bed at 7pm and wakes up at 6.30am/7am. Most nights he goes straight to sleep but there are a few nights where he chats to himself for a short while in bed before nodding off.

So far, since we got here, dad seems to have been incapable of getting him to bed anywhere near 7pm. Saturday night he had invited his friends over and dinner was hours later than normal so bedtime was 8pm. Sunday night he decided we go to a birthday party for an adult and we returned back near to 8pm again. Tonight, he’s take five year old over to a neighbour and they’ve been there for over an hour. It’s nearly 8pm and they are still not back so at this rate bedtime will not be until 8.30pm.

I know it’s the holidays and I should probably lighten up but I there are several issues in my mind.

Firstly I feel he isn’t putting five year olds sleep needs first. He’s jetlagged and should get back on schedule. We are three days in and it’s the worst time for jetlag. It’s a 6 hour time difference so at 8pm in this country, it’s 2am back home. He isn’t used to late nights and if he doesn’t get good sleep he is cranky.

Also, he will now become used to a later bedtime and it will be problematic when we get back in terms of getting up for school. just because he doesn’t have to get up now. Doesn’t mean his whole routine should change.

Secondly, I think their is an alterior motive to this bedtime delay. Five year old usually speaks to his dad between 6 and 7 each evening. Dad has repeatedly asked that this be moved to 6.30 to 7.30 because it would be easier for his schedule. I had already moved his bedtime from 6.30pm to 7pm last year to try to accommodate. feel that 7.30pm is too late given his sleep needs and having to get up for school.

I appreciate that some will think that 7 is too early for bedtime at this age and I would agree if he didn’t just go straight to sleep most nights.

I can’t talk to dad about it as things are already difficult between us. I want to try to intervene but I get shouted at so it’s very difficult and I don’t want him to start shouting in front of five year old.

thanks for reading a long post.

They’ve just come back. Son is very tired. I’ve asked dad about it and he claims there is no schedule here. He can just sleep late tomorrow. I know that’s true but last night he went to bed late and got up at 6.30 so he’s not getting as much sleep as normal overall.

Chill out for the holiday - back to normal when you're home.

And, unless it was you who moved, a Dad who doesn't live in the same country as his child gets very little say in bedtime or anything else. Do you really want the hassle of daily calls as he gets older, ,starts school etc?

I guess so, it’s just that crankiness is a problem when he’s tired for which I will get the blame.

No, he moved abroad. I don’t really want the daily calls but I’m trying to be co-operative. It’s all very difficult.

So tell him

'I'm sorry ex, daily calls at a fixed time aren't working and they are going to get more tricky as DS gets older. Let's go for Mon/Wed/Fri and both days at the weekend (or whatever)'

what is he going to do about it?

I’ll get a lot of verbal response from that. He’s quite intimidating and very shouty.

And? You ignore it. Put down the phone. There's nothing he can do about it and you don't have to listen to his bullshit.

sorry DH, I won't be verbally abused. If you shout at me again, the next call won't happen. I'll speak to you again on (date/time of next call) and I expect you to keep it civil.

click

I wish that were so but his communications are horrible and very upsetting. Since we got here he wants to be in control, which I understand as he doesn’t get to be in charge most of the time but I feel he’s messing up a good schedule which is long established, just to make a point.

How long are you staying? I'd be inclined to say that if he doesn't stop behaving like this you'll be leaving early.

does your son benefit from having this man in his life?

Two weeks for the Easter break.

When ex is being calm then they can have a nice time together but ex can be shouty and unkind towards son too, especially if he doesn’t behave as ex wants him too. We are heading to court soon over arrangements.

It’s now 8.40pm and he’s still got him up, reading a long story to him after shower.

Op it seems like the late night is the smallest problem here, your little man can sleep in tomorrow, probably will be cranky (also how is that your fault? Why on earth would you get the blame!?) Ds will surely be able to get back into a normal routine back home.

Your ex being controlling, manipulative, shouty, short tempered and intimidating seems to be the real issue...maybe let the lateness go to keep ex on side, and when you can leave and go home? Also if he moved abroad somewhere far enough for 6 hour time difference how does that work in UK court?

Sounds like you have all the power here? And do not need to take any shit from this man

I get the blame for everything. If my son is cranky tomorrow it will be because “he can’t control his emotions” and that will be attributed to my “poor parenting”. A child isn’t allowed to cry unless they are hurt, apparently, and that just because he is tired doesn’t mean he should be cranky.

My son had a long period of being a picky eater which I was informed was all my fault, despite me running round researching the issue and trying new approaches to help him move on. All while ex sat there and told me to just make him eat it and then got cross with son when he refused. Son has largely grown out of it now. The irony of the food problem is that today, ex couldn’t get him to eat anything except a yoghurt drink and an apple at lunchtime and when I mentioned I was worried about how little he had eaten, ex said “I can’t control what he will and won’t eat”. If I had said that during the difficult eating phase there would have been hell to pay.

I don’t feel like I have any power. I try to speak about things and get shouted down.

Honestly, if he's moved that far away a court isn't going to do anything.

I think you are both nit picking and point scoring. He is only there for two weeks. I wouldn’t get hung up on bed time. The child only gets two weeks with his father. All seems quite petty. Both of you need to try actually putting your child first.

8pm on holiday isn't a late bedtime in my eyes and he's keeping him up an extra bir of time to hang out and read a story? I couldn't get worked up by that

I wouldn’t be so worried if I thought he wouldn’t be cranky as a result. He’s building up a sleep debt since we got here and that will lead one way. Ex won’t allow a daytime nap to compensate.

It is 2 weeks. Bedtime shifting around by a couple of hours isn’t going to cause long term damage. Since you are shifted on time zone, you aren’t even really resetting his body clock any more than the trip itself would have done.

this is a pick your battles situation. If he was keeping your child up until the wee hours it would be worth an argument.

Save it for things like daily phone calls which may quickly become impossible to manage as your child’s life gets busier.

Thank you to you all for your viewpoints. I really appreciated your thoughtful comments and will take them onboard. I’m heading to bed now myself. Best wishes to you all.

I'd say pull this holiday short and come home but you aren't going to do that. In they case just get through if and a few late nights and kids wake ups whilst not ideal isn't that bad. I have a 5 year old too and if he was going to bed late eventually he would sleep in to compensate.

Once home you start the course proceedings. You also see the gp and get a counselling referral. Your inability to deal with this man is concerning. When you aren't in the same country you don't need to listen to the shouting and can set up some boundaries. You can put down the phone, block his number if needed. Whilst their your safety is the most important thing!

Being shouted at, ignored or belittled isn't behaviour you should ever have to accept op.

I think your username is very fitting. Grit your teeth through this holiday (although I agree with PPs that the bedtime issue will correct itself once home and back in routine), then get some much stronger boundaries in place once home. Him being abroad works in your favour, as he can't just turn up on your doorstep to mouth off. You do not need to take the abuse.
Shouting down the phone at you? Calmly say you won't be spoken to like that and hang up. If it continues, I would block his number, insist on email communication between the two of you only, and unblock his number only when a call to your DS is scheduled. The emails may also be abusive, but at least you can control how often you access them and they are written evidence of his abuse if he is silly enough to type what he's saying to you verbally. Do not offer him any information that is going to be turned against you. You are under no obligation to tell him the minutiae of DS's life. If he was that bothered, he wouldn't have moved so far away, and would be aware of eg fussy eating because he would be navigating it himself during his contact time. Ditto court proceedings: wait for him to initiate that. I can't imagine he'll get far given he isn't in the UK and was the one to move. I'll repeat it again: you do not need to allow him to treat you like this. You have described an abusive person, and as much as you are clearly trying to keep him in the picture and up to date for noble reasons (my DM went down this path too), it does your DS no good to witness his dad's behaviour. At 'best', DS will learn this is how you should be spoken to and treated (and will carry it through to how he treats his own partner as an adult), and at worst your ex will eventually start speaking to and treating your DS in the same abusive way. For me, it was the latter, unfortunately.

Well then his father will have to deal with an irritable child. If your son is tired during the day he will fall asleep, I doubt his father is slapping him awake. No one wants to be annoyed with an over tired cranky child.

In general I dont think a different sleep schedule whilst on holiday does any long term harm. He might be tired and cranky on holiday but your ex can deal with it. Him making demands from accross the world about how you parent on a day to day basis is insane