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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this could solve teachers' problems

478 replies

NovemberRains · 03/04/2023 16:24

Teachers want higher pay.

Their employers currently pay a whopping ~24% into a defined benefit pension scheme!

AIBU to think that a lot of their problems could be solved if they were just given the option to either continue as they are, or get a 20% pay increase and have a 4% employer contribution to a standard defined contribution pension scheme like the vast majority of the population get!

I respect teachers, but based on my knowledge when overall remuneration is considered including pension and holidays, they really aren't underpaid compared to other professions!

It's a similar story for other public sector professions!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Hercisback · 05/04/2023 14:12

If someone can earn 40k and do a job they find fulfilling with a good work life balance and enough money to be comfortable, why would they want to earn 50k and be stressed all the time and having to pay the extra out on cleaners and have limited quality of life?

Currently the teachers on 40k are also stressed all the time...

PrivateSchoolTeacherParent · 05/04/2023 14:13

And, @noblegiraffe, I agree. The "thank you" to @Janedoe82 was for clarifying which bit of the argument is at issue here.

Sherrystrull · 05/04/2023 14:29

What would help reduce my stress...

Not being worried about bills
Affording a cleaner
Having a reliable car.

Janedoe82 · 05/04/2023 14:34

Sherrystrull but those are the same stresses that the vast majority of people have.

MrsHamlet · 05/04/2023 14:36

Can someone please explain to me why those of us who have "only" been teachers seem not to be entitled to a view about our profession?

fitzwilliamdarcy · 05/04/2023 14:36

Janedoe82 · 05/04/2023 14:34

Sherrystrull but those are the same stresses that the vast majority of people have.

Then they should consider striking too, rather than saying that everyone should just accept this for some reason.

Sherrystrull · 05/04/2023 15:11

Janedoe82 · 05/04/2023 14:34

Sherrystrull but those are the same stresses that the vast majority of people have.

That wasn't my point.

My point was simply about whether extra money would reduce my stress levels.

Janedoe82 · 05/04/2023 15:15

It would reduce mine too- but it isn’t going to happen anytime soon as we have a flat budget but costs are going up.

Itstarts · 05/04/2023 15:28

Hercisback · 05/04/2023 14:12

If someone can earn 40k and do a job they find fulfilling with a good work life balance and enough money to be comfortable, why would they want to earn 50k and be stressed all the time and having to pay the extra out on cleaners and have limited quality of life?

Currently the teachers on 40k are also stressed all the time...

And the teachers on 28k!

I don't know why 40k is the go to figure for teacher pay topics. Most people quit before 5 years so never earn that!

Janedoe82 · 05/04/2023 15:34

But that’s like any job- you work your way up. Very few graduates start on 40k

Itstarts · 05/04/2023 15:43

So arguments against the rail strikes saying 'but they earn 50k!' Or Dr strikes saying 'but they earn 100k+' or even nurses strikes saying 'they earn 60k' are all valid then? Because they could work their way up to that wage?

noblegiraffe · 05/04/2023 15:54

So, to recap Jane's arguments we've had:

  1. Teachers don't deserve more pay (only 'operational')
  2. Teachers are well paid anyway
  3. Paying teachers more wouldn't improve anything for anyone
  4. There isn't any more money to pay teachers 5)I haven't got any more money in my budget and I'm not going to try to do anything about that, and neither should anyone else

Can you just give the number of the current argument you are wheeling out, Jane, it would save you typing ('operational') and give you time to work on some new approaches ('strategy').

Janedoe82 · 05/04/2023 15:55

I think you have got it all. 🙄

Horni · 05/04/2023 16:04

Stop complaining! If you don’t like the pay look elsewhere (re train). Simple’s!

LolaSmiles · 05/04/2023 16:08

Stop complaining! If you don’t like the pay look elsewhere (re train). Simple’s!
People are.
That's sort of the issue.
Recruitment and retention are a big problem.

Itstarts · 05/04/2023 16:09

Horni · 05/04/2023 16:04

Stop complaining! If you don’t like the pay look elsewhere (re train). Simple’s!

And....we're back to square 1.

This is exactly the problem. 1000s have gone elsewhere. No need to retrain. Many unskilled jobs pay more per hour than teaching.

Horni · 05/04/2023 16:17

Teaching will never pay as much as private sector so no point even trying for more pay!

Georgeandzippyzoo · 05/04/2023 16:29

Janedoe82 · 03/04/2023 16:41

The reason some people get pissed off with teachers is because most of them have only ever been teachers and don’t seem to grasp that all of us have jobs we find stressful at times. And they also chose to be teachers!! I didn’t as was well aware it would be stressful being with kids all day 🙈

Being with 'the kids' is NOT the stressful part of the day! In fact for many teachers it's actually the part they enjoy the most and why they STAY in the job!!

Yes other jobs are stressful, but there are few graduate jobs where the workforce is leaving in such massive numbers. Parents may complain when their school can't fill a vacancy, never mind fill a vacancy with appropriately qualified/Subject based teacher.

SEN / mental health issues for children of all ages are rocketing and budgets for EP / OT are declining (including trainibg such professionals). Schools have to target those in 'most need' and others are left hanging. Waiting lists for school aged children for assessments with CAMHS are now nearly 4yrs in our area. Kids still attend school and staff are trying to deal with this with fewer TAs (very overlooked staff)

Please understand it is NOT only about pay , but you are regulated as to what you can legally strike about so its down as 'pay and conditions'.

Changechangechanging · 05/04/2023 16:30

Stop complaining! If you don’t like the pay look elsewhere (re train). Simple’s!

erm…..the average teacher is lasting less than 5 years. Recruitment is running way below replacement levels. Who is going to teach children?

BlackFriday · 05/04/2023 16:45

Horni · 05/04/2023 16:04

Stop complaining! If you don’t like the pay look elsewhere (re train). Simple’s!

Jesus. And STILL people are wheeling out this stupid argument.

Horni · 05/04/2023 16:48

@Changechangechanging
there will always be someone! Maybe they’ll only last a few years and so on and on….
don’t understand why teachers need to be near London!? Work outside London where the cost of living doesn’t bite so hard. It’s a great job as you can work anywhere!

TortolaParadise · 05/04/2023 16:49

Calculater · 03/04/2023 16:45

I don't think the recruitment and retention issue or the strikes is about pay at all. It's about workload and unreasonable demands.

Teachers contractual terms and pay are excellent, if the demands were comparable to other jobs. Most teachers understand that.

TBH you could double teacher pay and it wouldn't be enough to retain most of the ones who are leaving. There isn't a salary that makes it a sustainable way to live.

Easter holiday and guess what I'm still working and so are many others. The key word is holiday.

PrivateSchoolTeacherParent · 05/04/2023 16:49

Increasingly, there isn't someone. Fewer people are going into teaching than are leaving. But this is the point where we go round the whole cycle of arguments all over again. Wheee!

borntobequiet · 05/04/2023 17:00

Horni · 05/04/2023 16:04

Stop complaining! If you don’t like the pay look elsewhere (re train). Simple’s!

As many teachers are doing, hence the retention problem.

God knows how many times I’ve pointed this out on these threads.

borntobequiet · 05/04/2023 17:01

Horni · 05/04/2023 16:17

Teaching will never pay as much as private sector so no point even trying for more pay!

That’s interesting “logic”.