Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Unwanted guest.

452 replies

melissa2929291936 · 02/04/2023 22:22

My work sent me abroad for six months.I arranged to rent our home out to a "friend".She only paid two months rent but I let it slide until we returned.When we did come home,she refused to leave the house.The police said there was nothing they could do so myself,husband and two small children had to camp out at my mothers thirty miles away.After six weeks of this,and having tried every legal avenue,I went to our home after "friend"had left for work.I still had my keys so I entered and turned the water off at the stopcock.The stopcock is in a weird place,not where you'd expect,so I was pretty sure she didn't know its location.I then cancelled the broadband for the address.That night she had the nerve to phone me complaining.She said she had an infant,a toddler and no water.I informed her she could go to her own mother (who lived in the same street.)but the rental time in our written contract had passed and she hadn't even paid me for most of it.Cue tears,threats etc but,because I knew she had somewhere to go,I held my ground.Went round next day and she'd gone,although the place was trashed.I had the locks changed,cleared up and moved back in.Now she's bad mouthing me all over,saying I threw out a mother with young children.Her main gripe though seems to be the lack of broadband rather than water! I genuinely don't think i was in the wrong "throwing her out"_I knew she wouldn't be on the street.

OP posts:
gamerchick · 03/04/2023 10:54

How do you immediately cancel broadband? They don't just switch it off at will do they?

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 10:55

@bigdecisionstomake I am not advising her about eviction. The friend has quit the property. The friend is now bad-mouthing her. My advice is to ignore the friend's rants and raged about her and move on.

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 10:55

As I have said the tenant would not be paying solicitor fees. Illegal evictions are dealt with by the local authority who instruct solicitors. The tenant only has to complain to the L/A who then decide if there is a case to answer. Again people are commenting on matters where they have a sketchy knowledge of the actual legal process.

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 10:58

@loislovesstewie it was a short fixed-term tenancy and the friend has left because the broadband wasn't working. If she had stayed put and contacted the council to ask them to support her in forcing the OP to turn the broadband and water back on then she would have been in stronger position, but she didn't. She left. There is no indication that she isn't going to be seeking to move back in. The OP's AIBU is about defamation.

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 10:59
  • no indication that she IS seeking to move back in.
LumpyandBumps · 03/04/2023 11:00

If you had posted your plans here any landlords would have advised you against this course of action, but it’s done now.
I would draw a line under this and doubt it’s worth pursuing her for rent arrears and damage. She couldn’t counterclaim against civil action for compensation for rent arrears and damage by taking action for illegal eviction as illegal eviction is a criminal act. She could try to claim moving expenses, etc but these would be offset against your claim.
In theory the local authority could take action against you for illegal eviction and pursue a compensation application on her behalf, but the number of prosecutions for this is vanishingly low, and normally reserved for extreme rogue landlords. It is so unlikely that action would be taken in your case. The high proportion of votes that you were not unreasonable suggests that public opinion is on your side and not the sort of case which would put the local authority in a good light.
Who cares about social media? People who know the situation that she overstayed so you could not return to your own home ( not incorrect in law but morally reprehensible), will generally think she deserved what happened. Some people are so biased against landlords they will be outraged, but the SM is probably just a lot of hot air which will quickly become yesterday’s news.

Squamata · 03/04/2023 11:01

I'd be interested to hear the friend's side of the story. Why did she stop paying rent after two months - was there anything she complained about but you didn't address?

Did your landlord or mortgage provider know you were letting the house to a tenant? Did your insurance provider know?

Did you appoint someone to help her with problems in the house while you were away, broken boilers etc? Did you comply with the law re deposit protection?

Presumably your work paid for your accommodation while you were away. You wanted a housesitter really but chose to profit from a friend without providing any of the usual services and protections a landlord offers.

RE her not leaving - was there a contract saying it was only for six months? Did you notify her of when you were coming home? She was a single mother with two children, not easy to find accommodation right away without notice. Why didn't you take action two months in, when she stopped paying rent?

Your account makes her sound like a CF and not paying rent/not leaving on time was wrong, but I wonder what her side of the story would be.

Maybe another way of describing it would be you ignoring many legal requirements from your landlord/mortgage provider/insurance, ignoring landlord and tenant law completely, leaving the house to her without doing anything about maintaining it or being a good landlord, then cutting off her water and broadband when you wanted her out. All to make a buck when your employer was paying your accommodation costs anyway.

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 11:05

And I am trying to point out that turning off utilities, changing locks etc is not acceptable and not the legal way to evict a tenant. A tenant might well leave the property but could claim that they left under duress. You seem to be unaware that this is exactly what happens to some tenants, services are turned off, landlords make threats and the tenant leaves.Sometimes the landlord changes locks when the tenant is out of the house. It doesn't mean that they haven't been illegally evicted. It means they left under duress. If you are sufficiently interested there are numerous prosecutions where the landlord has done just that. The aim being to force the tenant to go and then claim that they just left.

pleasehelpwi3 · 03/04/2023 11:07

So much bad advice on here. I'm an accidental landlord. Read through everything that is expected of me. The moment you take a penny in your rent, it becomes official and the law kicks in- on the tenant's side.

Points that haven't been mentioned yet: as well as the deposit scheme the landlord has to check the tenant's immigration status. It's is highly advisable to keep a copy of the passport/relevant visa as proof of this.
Also, I'm sure that the landlord didn't give the tenant a copy of the How to Rent checklist.

Yes, the friend is an absolute CF. But also, the OP has been incredibly naive.
Disliking the law or not knowing about the law, isn't a legal defence.
There are even 'professional tenants' who know their rights and will use the law to get money out of landlords who haven't followed it to the letter.

This thread is like one of those inflammatory articles in the Daily Mail about speed cameras.

https://www.gov.uk/renting-out-a-property

Renting out your property

Landlord responsibilities when renting out your property, including making repairs, health and safety, increasing the rent and changing regulated tenancies.

https://www.gov.uk/renting-out-a-property

chanceofpear · 03/04/2023 11:07

I doubt op's
Friend paid a deposit

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 11:08

@Squamata some people just have a brass neck. After my granny died my parents were approached by a lady in their village about renting her house for two months while she had work done on hers. They said no. As well as the fact that they had the grief, the probate, etc to deal with, they wanted to be able to put it on the market as soon as they could. It turned out this woman's house had serious problems that would take a couple of years to fix and when my mother made a light comment to her in the village shop it became apparent that she would have made it difficult for my parents to evict her and sell the house. Thank goodness my parents said no.

bigdecisionstomake · 03/04/2023 11:11

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 10:55

@bigdecisionstomake I am not advising her about eviction. The friend has quit the property. The friend is now bad-mouthing her. My advice is to ignore the friend's rants and raged about her and move on.

You were advising that it was a 'short term tenancy' (no such thing exists in law) and that 'arguably' once the tenant stopped paying rent they were only a house-sitter or squatter. There is no argument to be had - the OP created a tenancy and just because the tenant stops paying rent they don't suddenly stop being a tenant.

The OP entered the property without giving the tenant the legally required notice and switched the water off - it is about as black and white an illegal eviction as it is possible to be and advising otherwise is unhelpful both to the OP and to any other posters who may be reading and assuming from your advice that a tenant magically morphs into a house-sitter or squatter once they stop paying rent.

forgotmyusername1 · 03/04/2023 11:12

I am a landlord. I had a tenant go into 3k arrears so I know how this goes.

You became a landlord when you accepted rent for the property and gave her exclusive occupation. Whether there is a written contract is immaterial. You could also get into trouble for not providing deposit protection if a deposit was paid, not having a valid epc, not having gas safety certificate and other numerous legal responsibilities which come with being a landlord.

The lack of rent is a seperate issue

This landlord got 12 months imprisonment and an 8k fine for illegally evicting a tenant. For gods sake keep your head down and keep quiet otherwise you could end up on the same path if she gets wind of what you have done. The law is not on your side. She is a cf but what she did was not illegal. You broke the law. Do not go after her for missing rent or repairs like some on here are suggesting or you will end up in complete shit if she approaches anyone to find out her rights.

https://www.peterborough.gov.uk/news/prison-sentence-for-illegal-eviction-by-private-landlord

Prison sentence for illegal eviction by private landlord - Peterborough City Council

Peterborough City Council

https://www.peterborough.gov.uk/news/prison-sentence-for-illegal-eviction-by-private-landlord

Florissante · 03/04/2023 11:13

OP, you have my sympathies. Your friend's / tenant's actions were indefensible. I hope that life goes more smoothly for you now.

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 11:14

The lesson from all this is not to rent your house out and to try to avoid being an accidental landlord. It reduces the amount of housing available for renters, but it is the only way to protect yourself.

pleasehelpwi3 · 03/04/2023 11:14

chanceofpear · 03/04/2023 11:07

I doubt op's
Friend paid a deposit

I'm sure you're right.
But the landlord still needs:
Do an annual gas safety check, including boiler.
Check the working smoke alarm/CO alarm.
Check and record check of tenant's right to rent in the UK (ie immigration status)
Give the tenant a copy of the How to Rent guide
Provide an EPC

And declare all rent to HMRC via a self assessment tax return, even if in work.
if the landlord hasn't done all of these things- and most of them on an annual basis- they are breaking the law.

And that's before the illegal eviction.

Yes the 'friend' is an A grade CF, and I hope to god I never rent my flat to one like that, and in the interests of fairness I'd hope the CF moves on, but the landlord is totally in the wrong.

hoophoophooray · 03/04/2023 11:16

Let's not even get into the fact that if you are an overseas landlord, you need to register with HMRC to keep the tax situation straight...

I think this is the least of the OP's worries though.

Bunny44 · 03/04/2023 11:18

oakleaffy · 03/04/2023 10:28

Have you seen the legal trouble the homeowner could well be in?!

I had no idea. She is lucky if she isn’t prosecuted 😱for an “ Illegal eviction “.

I too was incensed at the “Friend’s” cheekiness- but as it stands, the Law is on the side of the tenant, despite her not paying rent for four months, and damaging the place.

Show quote history

So there are some separate rules about if you rent out either a room or your main residence to someone else temporarily which means you can do it without a contract, see Air b&b. Also you don't need to change your mortgage type or pay tax as long as it's under £7500 (again only applied to main residence). This house is the main residence of the OP and her family, therefore it would be incorrect to change her mortgage type. Since it was still the main residence of the OP and her family and they were only away temporarily, legally they still lived there too. That said, since the friend paid rent this creates an 'unwritten' contract and it's true this still could count as an illegal eviction, but it's not applicable in quite the same way as the a full tenancy agreement for the entire house outright.

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 11:18

Fixed-term short assured tenancies do exist. As I said, the OP was not seeking advice on how to evict a tenant, but on the former-tenant defaming her. @LumpyandBumps has given the best advice.

chanceofpear · 03/04/2023 11:19

PrincessofWellies · 03/04/2023 10:37

This was an illegal eviction. The last case I looked at it cost the landlord £21,000 in damages to the tenant. Disgusting behaviour on your part. I sincerely hope you are prosecuted and have to pay damages to your victim.

Why would you hope that. Are you a freeloader too?

pleasehelpwi3 · 03/04/2023 11:19

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 11:14

The lesson from all this is not to rent your house out and to try to avoid being an accidental landlord. It reduces the amount of housing available for renters, but it is the only way to protect yourself.

Not easy to avoid being an accidental landlord if your flat is covered in cladding and you need to move into a different area and can't sell.....
As time moves on from Grenfell but cladding is not sorted, more and more people are becoming accidental landlords as people can't sell their flats.
And yes the cladding on my flat is safe- it's been checked- but no flats with cladding on are saleable.......

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 11:24

Indeed! I think we can all feel deep sympathy for anyone who has been caught up in that. There are other perfectly legitimate reasons why people become accidental landlords, but unfortunately they all risk having a tenant like this or worse.

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 11:27

Most private tenancies are 6 month assured shortholds, legally that tenancy could continue for years having become a statutory periodic tenancy. There is no need for the tenant to pack up and go at the end of the 6 months. The landlord still needs to serve a correct notice and obtain a possession order. The law in Scotland and Wales is slightly different, but I have met few private tenancies which were for longer than 6 months, because landlords know that it's the shortest period they can rent for. Originally after the creation of assured shortholds in 1988 the default position was that without a written contract the tenancy was an assured tenancy which gave even more rights to the tenant. That was quickly rectified.

FannyPhart · 03/04/2023 11:28

So basically you carried out an illegal eviction. Of course you protected her deposit as well...Let's hope she doesn't get wise to the law and decide there might be some compensation in it for her.

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 11:31

@Bunny44 This is what I was alluding to. I forget the details, but renting out your family home for a short time is different from being a normal commercial landlord. From the council's point of view you still have to pay council tax if you vacate your property for six months, whether you have a lodger, a tenant (who may or may not pay it for you) or leave it empty during that time. You can't even reduce your council tax to single-person occupancy. You are still resident as far as the council is concerned. Lodgers have very few rights precisely because they are living in your home. Only the OP will know what sort of agreement they signed. Regardless, it is not the point of the post, which was about the OP's former friend bad-mouthing her.