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AIBU?

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Original poster

Unwanted guest.

452 replies

melissa2929291936 · 02/04/2023 22:22

My work sent me abroad for six months.I arranged to rent our home out to a "friend".She only paid two months rent but I let it slide until we returned.When we did come home,she refused to leave the house.The police said there was nothing they could do so myself,husband and two small children had to camp out at my mothers thirty miles away.After six weeks of this,and having tried every legal avenue,I went to our home after "friend"had left for work.I still had my keys so I entered and turned the water off at the stopcock.The stopcock is in a weird place,not where you'd expect,so I was pretty sure she didn't know its location.I then cancelled the broadband for the address.That night she had the nerve to phone me complaining.She said she had an infant,a toddler and no water.I informed her she could go to her own mother (who lived in the same street.)but the rental time in our written contract had passed and she hadn't even paid me for most of it.Cue tears,threats etc but,because I knew she had somewhere to go,I held my ground.Went round next day and she'd gone,although the place was trashed.I had the locks changed,cleared up and moved back in.Now she's bad mouthing me all over,saying I threw out a mother with young children.Her main gripe though seems to be the lack of broadband rather than water! I genuinely don't think i was in the wrong "throwing her out"_I knew she wouldn't be on the street.

OP posts:
BreviloquentBastard · 03/04/2023 09:47

Barbecuebeans · 03/04/2023 09:37

Oh stop it!

The OP isn't Rachman and she didn't try and exploit anyone. She didn't even make a fuss about the non-payment of rent.

The legal position doesn't make what her friend did acceptable. Non payment of rent, trashing the place and refusal to leave at the end of a tenancy are not reasonable, even if the law allows it. The OP isn't letting out a spare property, this is her own house, and the tenant was making her homeless.

If the friend had wanted a long term arrangement she shouldn't have moved into the OP's house knowing she'd need it back in six months.

Show quote history

Literally no one on this thread is saying what the friend did is acceptable. No one. Of course it's not acceptable. The person you're replying to also wasn't calling OP a slumlord, they're saying the laws are in place and strict to prevent slumlords being able to run rampant. I'm not sure how you so masterfully missed their point.

Unfortunately the poor behaviour of OPs friend doesn't change the law. OP has done something illegal. The tenant acting like a cheeky twat doesn't change the law. OP not having a home to go to when she came back because she chose to rent that home to a friend doesn't change the law. The friend not paying rent and treating the house disrespectfully doesn't change the law. Your indignation doesn't change the law. An illegal eviction is an illegal eviction no matter how morally just it was and the courts will not be on OPs side if it comes to that.

KettrickenSmiled · 03/04/2023 09:48

When we did come home,she refused to leave the house.The police said there was nothing they could do so myself,husband and two small children had to camp out at my mothers thirty miles away.After six weeks of this,

It's hard to understand why you exiled your entire family from your own home because a CF decided to squat. Why did you not just march in, reclaim your space, & tell her to piss off to her mother's? You could have had your entire family chanting it in unison, she'd have soon gone ...

Justmeandthedog1 · 03/04/2023 09:48

What’s she going to do about it? She’s angry now hence slagging you off. But that’ll pass and she’ll move on.
I hope you photographed the damage, if she ever threatens any legal action bill her for the damage and say you’ll pursue that through the courts.

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 09:48

Again she is a landlord. Requesting rent and giving exclusive use of a property is enough to create a landlord /tenant relationship. I dealt with these matters for over 25 years, I think I know what creates a tenancy.

hoophoophooray · 03/04/2023 09:48

BlackFriday · 03/04/2023 09:45

She's not a landlord though, by the sounds of it.

She accepted rent for exclusive occupation of a property. She is a landlord. There is no "in between" status.

It's really shit, and non payment of rent / trashing the place is awful and we should have better legal ways of dealing with it.

However, she is lucky the tenant had somewhere to go and didn't immediately present as homeless to the LA or the OP would be in significant trouble. This could still happen

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 09:50

And boasting about this on social media really won't help if the tenant does present as homeless.

bigdecisionstomake · 03/04/2023 09:52

BlackFriday · 03/04/2023 09:45

She's not a landlord though, by the sounds of it.

She is definitely a landlord. She accepted a rent payment and gave possession of her house to someone else. That's all she needs to do to become a landlord and to be governed by the very many rules and regulations that landlords have to abide by.

There is no such thing as an 'informal' arrangement to rent out a property. As PPs have pointed out the tenant has behaved abysmally but that doesn't mean the OP can break the law to get her out of the property. She will be in BIG trouble if the ex-tenant reports her to the council and it won't cost the ex-tenant anything to pursue this all the way through the courts is she chose to do so.

OP unfortunately is one of the landlords who give others a bad name.

oakleaffy · 03/04/2023 09:55

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 09:37

As I have said, and I do have professional knowledge and experience, in order for a tenancy to be created it's only necessary for rent to be requested and exclusive use of a property to be agreed. It's clearly better to issue a contract for the avoidance of doubt, but providing those 2 points to be in existence. I have dealt with many private rents over the years where landlords didn't feel they had made a contract that created a tenancy, but the courts disagreed. The landlord found themselves in trouble because they hadn't bothered to actually read up on the law or take advice from a professional. I'm sorry if people don't like that, but renting a property is a business arrangement and consequently the relevant law should be adhered to, the law stipulates that the landlord should behave in a 'landlord like' manner and not in a manner outside the law. If the tenant stops paying rent or breaks another condition then there is provision for repossession within the law.

Wow I didn’t know that.
Many years ago I rented two rooms to students.
via a local college.
I went away in the school holidays for 8 weeks and left them to it.
I was as a teenager probably illegally evicted- we came back to hasps and padlocks on the doors- the “Landlord “ wanted to sell the house.

We called police, but they could do nothing.

It seems the law has changed massively.

Lodgers used to be easy to evict- but happily never needed to do this.

One does hear nightmare stories of tenants nowadays- It used to be about landlords.
I know about gas safety-

I do remember in the news of tenants dying back in 1980’s from those beastly “Ascots” in bathrooms- Air vents were covered over in the cold winters, and the poor tenants died of carbon monoxide poisoning.

Thistooshallpsss · 03/04/2023 09:58

Lodgers who share living space with their landlords and don’t have exclusive possession are treated differently by the law. The op would have been advised to start action once rent stopped being paid.

iaapap · 03/04/2023 09:59

She sounds unfit to have children in her care.

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 10:01

Lodgers are a different issue, sharing kitchen, bathroom etc with a resident landlord does not constitute a tenancy but a licence. The law is different there. The law re illegal eviction has always been taken very seriously by the courts, there are successful prosecutions where the landlord has been sentenced to a term of imprisonment and has had to pay thousands in compensation to the tenant. Anyone who is being threatened with illegal eviction needs to contact the local authority. The police should actually assist in preventing an illegal eviction as there can also be other offences as well as the illegal eviction.

Sparklfairy · 03/04/2023 10:01

@Cabella mine is in a tiny hole in the bathroom wall with a bodged makeshift little sliding door Grin

HurdyGurdy19 · 03/04/2023 10:05

I'm interested to know - if the OP and her family had moved back into the house, living alongside the tenant, would that have broken a (possibly unwritten) tenancy?

Assuming no written contract was put in place when the OP agreed to rent the property for 6 months, does accepting any form of rental payment imply exclusive use of the property?

(Reading this, and other tenant/landlord threads, has convinced me to never let my property!)

oakleaffy · 03/04/2023 10:07

oakleaffy · 03/04/2023 09:31

@melissa2929291936 Well done , OP
That is YOUR family home- It’s not a “ Buy to let” property.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I’d never ever rent without a rock solid contract-

Arseholes like this Freddie- Freeloader make people very wary of renting out their home.

Edit..
Since reading the replies from those who know the current laws -
I’m shocked!
It seems all the rights and protection is on the side of the tenant, even one who doesn’t pay rent.

It is an eye - opening thread.
@melissa2929291936 Just hope the freeloader doesn’t try to take this further.

Hoppinggreen · 03/04/2023 10:08

Evicting people is very very hard now, even if they have behaved badly.
It took MIL 3 months to evict people who owed her thousands in unpaid rent, trashed her house and caused most of the neighbourhood to contact her to complain about their behaviour.
The laws designed to protect tenants can be abused by CFers unfortunately and while Nobody, that’s NOBODY for the hard of understanding on here thinks the Tenants were right the warnings that OP could be in trouble are correct.
Lets hope this awful person restricts herself to SM rants rather than a call to Shelter or similar.

oakleaffy · 03/04/2023 10:09

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 10:01

Lodgers are a different issue, sharing kitchen, bathroom etc with a resident landlord does not constitute a tenancy but a licence. The law is different there. The law re illegal eviction has always been taken very seriously by the courts, there are successful prosecutions where the landlord has been sentenced to a term of imprisonment and has had to pay thousands in compensation to the tenant. Anyone who is being threatened with illegal eviction needs to contact the local authority. The police should actually assist in preventing an illegal eviction as there can also be other offences as well as the illegal eviction.

Thanks for clarifying ,@loislovesstewie .

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 10:12

The OP would not be able to just move back in, that might well be harassment of the tenant. Landlords can't just do that. The tenant is entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property and exclusive use until the tenancy is ended in the appropriate, legal manner. Attempting to move back in means an urgent call to the local authority. There is also usually an out of hours number for precisely this sort of thing.
As others have said, no matter what the tenant has done, the correct legal route needs to be taken. It's why it exists.

BlueJellycat · 03/04/2023 10:13

Unless you was renting a room to her as a lodger this is illegal. You should looked into the laws before renting your home out. If you had set up a lodger agreement she wouldn't have had much rights nd you could have moved back in at any time. It's done now, your lucky your back in. If you wanted to go after the costs I think that ship has sailed as where is your written agreement? Deposit? Inventory?

Pocketfullofdogtreats · 03/04/2023 10:13

Maybe the OP shouldn't call it rent, but a contribution towards the gas, water etc and the council tax while the 'friend' was staying there. If the OP had wanted to come home for a weekend during her six months away, could she have legitimately stayed in the house if the friend bunked in with her kids? I'm suggesting she could. Therefore it was just a 'stay at mine while I'm away' arrangement. I'm guessing there was no deposit taken. I know that the lawyers here will argue it's still a tenancy, but that's what I'd say if I were the OP - the house wasn't rented out, but lent.

Nanny0gg · 03/04/2023 10:17

Ktime · 02/04/2023 22:29

Well done for getting her out! How bad is the damage? ☹️

When you got in the house, would you have been allowed to change the locks and put her stuff outside?

Yes. No rent and she had no rights

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 10:17

And yes, requesting rent and exclusive use of the property, constitutes a tenancy. If the landlord has sent a text for example stating how much rent would be paid there would be even less of an issue. When housing benefit was in payment that was further evidence. But there is no need for that evidence as those are the basics.

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 10:19

Get the locks changed while she is at work and leave her stuff in bags on the drive.

Hoppinggreen · 03/04/2023 10:20

Nanny0gg · 03/04/2023 10:17

Yes. No rent and she had no rights

Show quote history

Not true, she HAD paid some rent.
She DID have rights
Its shitty but she did

Genevieva · 03/04/2023 10:20

And it sounds like she was a house sitter not a tenant.

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 10:20

For the love of God, please don't try to enter into any other dubious arrangements to circumnavigate the law. I can see all sorts of issues. If you need to return to your house at short notice, don't rent it out, don't ask for contributions, don't call rent something else. Take legal advice and accept that being a landlord is not for you.