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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Unwanted guest.

452 replies

melissa2929291936 · 02/04/2023 22:22

My work sent me abroad for six months.I arranged to rent our home out to a "friend".She only paid two months rent but I let it slide until we returned.When we did come home,she refused to leave the house.The police said there was nothing they could do so myself,husband and two small children had to camp out at my mothers thirty miles away.After six weeks of this,and having tried every legal avenue,I went to our home after "friend"had left for work.I still had my keys so I entered and turned the water off at the stopcock.The stopcock is in a weird place,not where you'd expect,so I was pretty sure she didn't know its location.I then cancelled the broadband for the address.That night she had the nerve to phone me complaining.She said she had an infant,a toddler and no water.I informed her she could go to her own mother (who lived in the same street.)but the rental time in our written contract had passed and she hadn't even paid me for most of it.Cue tears,threats etc but,because I knew she had somewhere to go,I held my ground.Went round next day and she'd gone,although the place was trashed.I had the locks changed,cleared up and moved back in.Now she's bad mouthing me all over,saying I threw out a mother with young children.Her main gripe though seems to be the lack of broadband rather than water! I genuinely don't think i was in the wrong "throwing her out"_I knew she wouldn't be on the street.

OP posts:
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 03/04/2023 19:28

The OP wasn't an accidental landlord, though. She was only going to be away for 6 months. She didn't need to rent her house out in that time. She could have paid for a sitter, friend or family member to pop in once a week/month to check on the place. But instead she thought she'd rent it out on the sly, without following the proper guidelines, to make a bit of money. A decision which came back to bite her on the ass.

Maybe I didn't use the technically correct term, but you know exactly what point I am making.

It's interesting framing that way, because, in slightly different circumstances and on a different thread, there would be posters condemning somebody for deliberately leaving an empty property vacant whilst there were homeless people in the town.

BadNomad · 03/04/2023 19:34

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 03/04/2023 19:28

The OP wasn't an accidental landlord, though. She was only going to be away for 6 months. She didn't need to rent her house out in that time. She could have paid for a sitter, friend or family member to pop in once a week/month to check on the place. But instead she thought she'd rent it out on the sly, without following the proper guidelines, to make a bit of money. A decision which came back to bite her on the ass.

Maybe I didn't use the technically correct term, but you know exactly what point I am making.

It's interesting framing that way, because, in slightly different circumstances and on a different thread, there would be posters condemning somebody for deliberately leaving an empty property vacant whilst there were homeless people in the town.

Not for 6 months. A 6-month tendency isn't going to help a homeless person. And the OP did not want the hassle of renting her house out legitimately for 6 months.

Crumpleton · 03/04/2023 19:51

Maybe we should all choose which bits of legislation we think are stupid and just ignore them?

Genuinely interested to know if it's in breech of contract if you don't pay the rent.

If not then fair enough..
But if it is how come the tenant doesn't have to leave the property once they decide they're not paying anymore and the LL has to fight to remove them.

Thistooshallpsss · 03/04/2023 20:03

One word Rachman

hoophoophooray · 03/04/2023 20:09

Crumpleton · 03/04/2023 19:51

Maybe we should all choose which bits of legislation we think are stupid and just ignore them?

Genuinely interested to know if it's in breech of contract if you don't pay the rent.

If not then fair enough..
But if it is how come the tenant doesn't have to leave the property once they decide they're not paying anymore and the LL has to fight to remove them.

Because there are always 2 sides to a story. You can't have landlords unilaterally ending a tenancy on a whim.

So the courts have to decide. And at the moment, the justice system is wildly underfunded and cases are taking months to get to court.

You also cannot have a two tier system. Who decides who is an accidental landlord and who isn't? Why should tenants of "accidental" landlords not have the same protections as those who are tenants of professional landlords?

I think that this woman has behaved badly. But a return to the Wild West of renting from the Rachman era is in nobody's interests. The answer is to find court systems properly, so these cases are dealt with quickly - not allow landlords to behave like this.

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 20:11

Because the law says that if the tenant has broken a condition of the tenancy then the landlord has to issue a S8 notice stating the grounds under which they are asking the court to grant possession. A S8 notice is defensible and the tenant is able to tell the court why the rent hasn't been paid, dispute the amount said to be owed, in fact make a defence. The court then decides if it's correct to award possession to the landlord. That is the case whether a private tenancy or housing association or local authority. The Protection from Eviction Act states that a tenant cannot be evicted without the correct legal process being taken. The only person who can legally remove a tenant from a property is a court bailiff. Any other person doing so is not authorized to do that, turning off services, changing locks constitutes harassment. Courts take a very dim view of landlords who do that. The penalty if convicted can include a term of imprisonment.

winterchills · 03/04/2023 20:24

So glad u have managed to get her out! I really hope this is the last u hear from her but i have a feeling she will continue to cause trouble now she is out. Horrible cow

WarmButteryCrumpets · 03/04/2023 20:27

Surely as the 6-month "tenancy" was finished you actually were in the right?

dittbtdity · 03/04/2023 20:36

Well done OP for getting rid of the cheeky bitch.

MaireadMcSweeney · 03/04/2023 20:37

WarmButteryCrumpets · 03/04/2023 20:27

Surely as the 6-month "tenancy" was finished you actually were in the right?

No, it wasn't finished because unless the tenant leaves or gives notice the tenancy rolls over at the end of the 6 month fixed term. Tenancies don't end automatically.

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 20:43

Well I hope none of you is a landlord because most of you don't have a clue. And if you rent don't expect legislation to assist you if you have a problem, because you clearly have no respect for the law of landlord and tenant.

Cabella · 03/04/2023 21:10

@Sparklfairy thankyou for info, I remember your user name from 2 years ago, you gave good advice.
@WonderingWanda Thankyou, yes I think my stop tap will be under the water meter lid.

Florissante · 04/04/2023 08:14

loislovesstewie · 03/04/2023 20:43

Well I hope none of you is a landlord because most of you don't have a clue. And if you rent don't expect legislation to assist you if you have a problem, because you clearly have no respect for the law of landlord and tenant.

And a tenant who doesn't pay rent does? Isn't there some kind of law that says tenants have a legal obligation to pay rent?

loislovesstewie · 04/04/2023 08:29

Yes and landlords have a legal remedy when tenants fall into arrears. The answer isnt to throw them out causing an illegal eviction. I really don't get why you don't see that. Do you think that the landlord should just be able to eject a tenant for any or no reasons at all? We have legislation that deals with all sorts of things, and evictions are included in that.

StockPop · 04/04/2023 09:00

Do you think that the landlord should just be able to eject a tenant for any or no reasons at all?

For starters, yes, as it's the landlord's house. Nobody should be able to occupy someone else's house without their consent.

But leaving that aside, I would hardly call failure to pay rent 'no reason'.

loislovesstewie · 04/04/2023 09:14

At this point I really think you have lost the plot. You actually think that a landlord should be able to throw a tenant onto the street, without taking the legal route? A landlord should behave in a professional manner, they should not resort to violence, they should understand the legislation and act accordingly. If a landlord enters into a tenancy by giving exclusive use of a property and requests rent then that is what matters. The tenancy needs to be ended in the appropriate manner, not by force. BTW, I have seen other threads where a tenant asks if they should withold rent as the landlord won't carry out repairs. That is unacceptable but often posts urge the tenant to do that. I am giving correct legal advice on this thread, based on my long working experience. Encouraging or condoning illegally evictions could result in the person carrying on with the illegal eviction being prosecuted, a fine, jail sentence and payment of substantial damages could follow. No one is condoning non payment of rent, but we are explaining what, legally, the landlord should do.
Don't be a landlord if you won't comply with the legislation.

Florissante · 04/04/2023 09:20

Don't be a tenant if you won't pay rent.

MaireadMcSweeney · 04/04/2023 09:22

StockPop · 04/04/2023 09:00

Do you think that the landlord should just be able to eject a tenant for any or no reasons at all?

For starters, yes, as it's the landlord's house. Nobody should be able to occupy someone else's house without their consent.

But leaving that aside, I would hardly call failure to pay rent 'no reason'.

What kind of society would we have if landlords could evict tenants for no reason at all? Can you imagine what that would do to people's lives? Children's education? Mental health? Work?
being a landlord is a business. Property is an investment and renting it is a business transaction. There are laws to deal with breaches of contract just like in any other area of business.

JackiePlace · 04/04/2023 09:23

You were very naive to rent it to her without a contract. And if you were a “proper landlord ’you could get in trouble for switching off the water supply! But seems like you did what was needed in this case.
Ignore her now and move on.

Samsungwasher · 04/04/2023 09:23

There's no point in keeping banging on about this. Op hasn't posted since creating the thread.

Samsungwasher · 04/04/2023 09:26

I love the contrast to the usual landlord hating responses though. 😂

MojoJojo71 · 04/04/2023 09:31

I think you just need to put it behind you. In the eyes of the law unfortunately you evicted her illegally and if she took it further you’d likely end up paying her compensation. This happened to a friend of mine, she inherited a house and let a friend live there while it was on the market. She didn’t charge him any rent, just the money to cover utility bills but when the house sold he wouldn’t leave. She and her husband removed all his belongings and changed the locks so he took them to court and was awarded thousands of pounds in compensation

Florissante · 04/04/2023 09:31

Samsungwasher · 04/04/2023 09:26

I love the contrast to the usual landlord hating responses though. 😂

MN: Landlords are terrible people. Tenants should have more rights. Let's get pitchforks out for landlords.
Also MN: Waah! There is a shortage of property to rent.

loislovesstewie · 04/04/2023 10:00

Yes, I'm going to ignore this thread now. I feel like I am back at work trying to explain legislation to a landlord who just keeps saying 'but it's my house'. For the sake of my sanity, I'm leaving it.

MichelleScarn · 04/04/2023 10:02

Why do the tenants get 'thousands' in compensation? Surely they should only get what it actually costs them?