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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To reach out or not?

80 replies

OhBanana · 01/04/2023 08:32

I’ll try and keep this short bit sadly a long winded situation! Posting here for traffic but you can tell me if IABU!!

  • Had 1st baby DD 11 weeks ago, 6 day Induction, emergency c section, horrible long recovery including infection.
  • 3 weeks before DD is born good friend (10 year + friendship) who lives overseas (Europe) informs me she will be visiting for the day at the end of jan (making DD about two weeks old and me a shell of a person!) - she lives abroad so I said we would make it work. (I had told her I’d love her to meet dd when she was born but I was expecting some kind of discussion before anything was booked!)
  • This wasn’t a special trip to see me though, it was connecting flight at an airport near me on her way home from another country.
  • Two days after I got home I said to her that I could only handle very short visits at that point (not relating it to her visit, just that’s where I was at that point, if I had seen her I would have dug deep! But also expect her to have some understanding of the reality of our situation!)
  • a few days later she messages asking if it’s ‘frankly, worth her time’ (actual wording) to come and see us because I may not be very active/up for visitors following my comment - tells me she’s looking out for me by asking - but I honestly just found the whole exchange quite hurtful and patronising as though in my delicate state we were not going to be good enough to entertain her and she would rather spend her day in England doing something else if we couldn’t keep her adequately occupied. I reassured her multiple times that I would happily have her over for most of the day but what that day looked like would probably be very different than what she was expecting but she kept pushing it (felt like she was pushing me to tell her not to come) so in the end I told her not to come as I didn’t need the pressure and she had totally soured things so I wouldn’t enjoy the time at all. And I think If I get to be selfish ever… it’s when I’ve just been sliced open and looking after a newborn…
  • she ended up spending the day with a mutual friend instead. Mutual friend has seen Messages and told her she went about the whole thing wrong no matter how noble her intentions.
  • since then I’ve messaged her a couple of times (once to say thanks for a card and small present for DD she sent whilst in England, once on her birthday) - no reply from either. Thought they might open up the lines of communication and offer her an opportunity to say sorry and move on. I don’t want to hold a grudge but I don’t want her to think it was all okay and to brush it under the carpet.

I am of the feeling that if she offered a simple apology I would gladly move on. She doesn’t have kids and she doesn’t get it. We are in very different seasons of life. But Life is too short to loose friends (she has been my rock at other points in the past) but at the end of the day she was massively insensitive at the most vulnerable time of my entire life so I feel like I’m owed an apology at least. Or was I wrong to tell her not to come and I owe her an apology and should be the one to make amends?

All I know is that I miss her and she’s missing out on lots of things in my DDs life so far (even if via WhatsApp!) and I think it’s a bit shame if it’s just because we/she is being stubborn.

YABU - apologise to her and hope she still wants to be your friend
YANBU - she should apologise to you unprompted

OP posts:
pictoosh · 01/04/2023 10:12

All bets are not off when you've just had a baby. The word does not revolve around you. Life carries on as normal for everyone else.

MysteryBelle · 01/04/2023 10:12

Do not apologize! What in the world….

MysteryBelle · 01/04/2023 10:13

pictoosh · 01/04/2023 10:12

All bets are not off when you've just had a baby. The word does not revolve around you. Life carries on as normal for everyone else.

Wrong. Life does not revolve around a woman whose friend has just given birth.

pictoosh · 01/04/2023 10:14

I am not fond of the exaltation of new mums on here. All bets are off my arse...for the new mother yes, for other people and their limited free time and own plans, no.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 01/04/2023 10:16

Going against the grain here. I'm not sure she did wrong however her actual words were rude.

If I only had a day in a country and a good friend who had just given birth could only physically manage a short visit...I'd either message to say I'd not want to get in the way of her recovery and I'd see her next time, or I'd suck it up and travel an hour and back to see her for an hour...because she is my friend and struggling.

The OP wasn't fading about changing arrangements- she was recovering from a difficult birth and deserves some kindness at that time I think.

I'd never send a 'frankly is it worth my time' message to someone recovering from birth. That's when you should be there for your friends, not sending 'what's in it for me' messages.

And she has ignored your subsequent messages, which is also rude

Original poster
OhBanana · 01/04/2023 10:20

Villssev · 01/04/2023 10:08

I wouldn’t go in to an apology “hoping” for an apology in return OP

More of a ‘nice to have’ than a hope! It’s been made clear that whilst unintentional I’ve probably upset her too which I didn’t really think I had but can now see I may have done and she has previously been a very good friend and i obviously don’t want to hurt her so if I have I’m happy to apologise. I’d like to think she would feel the same if she didn’t realise or if I hadn’t made it clear enough to her but also it seems that for many she wasn’t in the wrong at all so also feeling like I should lower my expectations of her and move on!

OP posts:
Tryphenia · 01/04/2023 10:22

I think it’s just a mini-farrago of miscommunication, minor insensitivity etc. I don’t think it’s worth a stand-off, but equally I don’t think anyone involved owes anyone else a big apology. It sounds as if she wasn’t sure whether you were just being polite about being ok with her visiting, or how long you were prepared to have her there for, and was pushing for you to be more direct.

AAAAABBBBBCCCCC · 01/04/2023 10:24

It's not her..

Original poster
OhBanana · 01/04/2023 10:24

Tryphenia · 01/04/2023 10:22

I think it’s just a mini-farrago of miscommunication, minor insensitivity etc. I don’t think it’s worth a stand-off, but equally I don’t think anyone involved owes anyone else a big apology. It sounds as if she wasn’t sure whether you were just being polite about being ok with her visiting, or how long you were prepared to have her there for, and was pushing for you to be more direct.

Having read everyone’s opinions here I'm more inclined to see it this way, I don’t think either one of us intended to upset the other but managed to in the process! And in my fatigued and fragile state struggled to see it all from her pov- but that’s a beauty of mumsnet - you can always trust a bunch of strangers to tell you straight!!

OP posts:
IoooAINToooSAYINGoooSHEoooA · 01/04/2023 10:29

Why did you assume before birth that you'd be a shell? After both c sections I was up and about within a week, albeit slow. Loved having my friends and family round, but it sounds like you were making decisions on putting them off before the baby was even here.

I think you didn't want her to come, it showed in your messages, she decided not to come, well no you decided that for her. Then you told her you were hurt, so she's left thinking what the actual. That will be why she showed the other friend.

YABU she has nothing to apologise for. You should apologise.

Heroicallyfound · 01/04/2023 10:32

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 01/04/2023 10:16

Going against the grain here. I'm not sure she did wrong however her actual words were rude.

If I only had a day in a country and a good friend who had just given birth could only physically manage a short visit...I'd either message to say I'd not want to get in the way of her recovery and I'd see her next time, or I'd suck it up and travel an hour and back to see her for an hour...because she is my friend and struggling.

The OP wasn't fading about changing arrangements- she was recovering from a difficult birth and deserves some kindness at that time I think.

I'd never send a 'frankly is it worth my time' message to someone recovering from birth. That's when you should be there for your friends, not sending 'what's in it for me' messages.

And she has ignored your subsequent messages, which is also rude

This!

It’s the tone and intention behind the words of your friend that’s totally off - she showed a complete lack of empathy for how you were feeling, @OhBanana

I wouldn’t go demanding an apology, but I think it’s okay to say you felt hurt by her lack of regard and for treating you like you were some form of entertainment on her holiday. And make sure you’ve actually said that to her - be assertive and clear about it. What she does from there is her choice.

I would drop the hope of your baby getting to know her - this is your friendship, not your baby’s, and she lives abroad, doesn’t have children, and clearly doesn’t have any empathy. Be very wide eyes open about what she’s shown you about her nature and what she’s capable of giving in a friendship, and treat your friendship and hopes accordingly. Not everyone needs to be best friends and invested in your kid’s life etc.

Whatevs99 · 01/04/2023 10:32

“she’s missing out on lots of things in my DDs life so far”

That’s the line that struck me from
your OP. She’s actually not - and likely has little to no interest in your DD in the way you do. The very vast majority of people don’t.

Lots of people have babies and the world
doesn't revolve around either them or the child in the way you seem to think it does or should.

Team friend here.

Original poster
OhBanana · 01/04/2023 10:36

IoooAINToooSAYINGoooSHEoooA · 01/04/2023 10:29

Why did you assume before birth that you'd be a shell? After both c sections I was up and about within a week, albeit slow. Loved having my friends and family round, but it sounds like you were making decisions on putting them off before the baby was even here.

I think you didn't want her to come, it showed in your messages, she decided not to come, well no you decided that for her. Then you told her you were hurt, so she's left thinking what the actual. That will be why she showed the other friend.

YABU she has nothing to apologise for. You should apologise.

It’s great for you that that was your experience (which is isn’t for many women) but it was made clear to me that it’s a serious operation and recovery takes 6 weeks prior to my induction process! and even from a sleep perspective id love to meet a new parent sleeping through the night at 2 weeks - for me personally, running off 2-4 hours sleep a night is enough to make me a shell!

Also a difference between having people around and hosting - we had plenty of people around that needed no hosting but the whole thing came across as though she had expectations of me to host her. But regardless I had also told her I was happy to have her over for the day but that we would need to take it slow etc. My initial comment to her about short visits was specifically about my experience in those first few days home which was sadly misinterpreted.

regardless I can see there is likely upset on both sides and that’s why I came here of course - for help seeing it clearly! And happy to apologise for my part in it and hopefully to move on!

OP posts:
Villssev · 01/04/2023 10:39

Why did you know you were going to be induced 2 weeks before giving birth and likely to go to c section, out of interest?

IoooAINToooSAYINGoooSHEoooA · 01/04/2023 10:39

@OhBanana yeah I know a lot of people wouldn't be up and about after a week. But the point I'm making is you wrote yourself off 3 weeks before the birth. You didn't know how you'd be.

You seem to have accepted that there was wrong on your side though, so where the friendship goes now is up to you.

Original poster
OhBanana · 01/04/2023 10:40

Whatevs99 · 01/04/2023 10:32

“she’s missing out on lots of things in my DDs life so far”

That’s the line that struck me from
your OP. She’s actually not - and likely has little to no interest in your DD in the way you do. The very vast majority of people don’t.

Lots of people have babies and the world
doesn't revolve around either them or the child in the way you seem to think it does or should.

Team friend here.

before All of this we had had lots of conversations about dd and how she was excited to know her, see her grow up, be involved etc, but if you think it seems as though she probably doesn’t have interest I should maybe stop assuming she does!

Is it likely that someone would say all of this to their friend but then not really care? I hope not but maybe I’m naive!

incidentally Our mutual friend made it very clear (in her own humorous way) that she doesn’t really care for babies so I don’t try and make any conversations with her about dd and keep it relatively similar to things we used to talk about!

OP posts:
pictoosh · 01/04/2023 10:42

I agree that she's not missing out on a lot of things in your dd's life. She's a newborn.

Original poster
OhBanana · 01/04/2023 10:43

Villssev · 01/04/2023 10:39

Why did you know you were going to be induced 2 weeks before giving birth and likely to go to c section, out of interest?

I had been monitored for gestational hypertension and then later preeclampsia from 28 weeks. I’d known since then then I’d be induced very early and statistically early inductions typically end up in section. After 6 days of trying literally every induction method my hospital offered it ended up in c section so I wasn’t wrong!!

OP posts:
Villssev · 01/04/2023 10:43

But you said you did talk to your mutual friend about your dd upthread?

Villssev · 01/04/2023 10:44

OhBanana · 01/04/2023 10:43

I had been monitored for gestational hypertension and then later preeclampsia from 28 weeks. I’d known since then then I’d be induced very early and statistically early inductions typically end up in section. After 6 days of trying literally every induction method my hospital offered it ended up in c section so I wasn’t wrong!!

Show quote history

Despite all of that - you ended up having an emergency c section?

Original poster
OhBanana · 01/04/2023 10:46

Villssev · 01/04/2023 10:43

But you said you did talk to your mutual friend about your dd upthread?

Yes we’ve talked about her but I try not to dwell on her for too long and move conversations onto other topics. She’s part of my life so it’s inevitable she will come up (she’s even held her, I felt very honoured haha) but also if someone isn’t fussed about babies and you know that then it’s okay to not harp on about them as other people in your life will indulge you!

OP posts:
Original poster
OhBanana · 01/04/2023 10:47

Villssev · 01/04/2023 10:44

Despite all of that - you ended up having an emergency c section?

Show quote history

Yes

OP posts:
RosesofAmsterdam · 01/04/2023 11:53

In the kindest possible way, I think you've over-reacted, for many reasons already pointed out on the thread. You're upset because she didn't visit but you didn't want her to visit. It's not her fault she doesn't know what it's like when you've just given birth. If you want her in your life, send her a text to apologise and suggest you just forget the whole episode.

TheHoover · 01/04/2023 12:05

Just two friends with different expectations of what friendship means. Some people are more casual; others are not. I am guessing OP you have in the past had other AIBU situations with other friends?
So either drop her if she isn’t living up to your expectations of what a friend should do or brush it off.

Alcyone · 01/04/2023 23:01

And after warning her about short visits, slow motion stuff and empty shells you said she'd need to make her own tea? What was wrong with just saying you were really looking forward to seeing her and on the day order in some food and have a quick snooze if you were tired, I bet she would have loved cooing with baby while you had forty winks.

In your friend's position I think I'd have been calling back the next day pretending my flights had been cancelled.

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