No midwife | Mumsnet

Slaistery · 31/03/2023 20:17

Madness but not your circus etc

Albiboba · 31/03/2023 20:19

If she turns up at hospital having not had any medical care during her pregnancy it will flag some massive safeguarding concerns for the baby and her other children.

I asked if she'd booked in with a midwife yet, She said no and that she's not this time due to bad experience with her last one. She's been looking online and women don't always have a midwife just pay for private scans for reassurance.
This doesn’t even make sense, your scans are with midwives and you often don’t have the same midwife.
Your friend sounds incredibly ill informed and this is dangerous behaviour.

Albiboba · 31/03/2023 20:20

Slaistery · 31/03/2023 20:17

Madness but not your circus etc

I find this pov utter madness. Your good friend puts her baby’s life and her own in danger and your only response would be ‘not my circus’?

thegrain · 31/03/2023 20:23

I think once the due date gets nearer (does she even have a due date?!) Midwives are very useful.

Slaistery · 31/03/2023 20:24

Albiboba · 31/03/2023 20:20

I find this pov utter madness. Your good friend puts her baby’s life and her own in danger and your only response would be ‘not my circus’?

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If life has taught me nothing else, it’s taught me that you can’t cure stupid and that telling people stuff they already know isn’t going to change their mind. You’re generally better sticking by them in the aftermath of their shit decisions.

thegrain · 31/03/2023 20:24

Albiboba · 31/03/2023 20:20

I find this pov utter madness. Your good friend puts her baby’s life and her own in danger and your only response would be ‘not my circus’?

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Even OP says it's not her business.

I mean what's she supposed to do?

thegrain · 31/03/2023 20:25

Slaistery · 31/03/2023 20:24

If life has taught me nothing else, it’s taught me that you can’t cure stupid and that telling people stuff they already know isn’t going to change their mind. You’re generally better sticking by them in the aftermath of their shit decisions.

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I agree. If anything it makes them double down and they won't change their mind even if they wanted to

MontagueLeo · 31/03/2023 20:25

Might she be going for a private obstetrician instead?

drpet49 · 31/03/2023 20:25

She sounds pretty thick. I’d distant myself from such a selfish and idiotic person.

leaderofthelittles · 31/03/2023 20:26

It's always been absolutely legal and an option many women take. It's her legal right. Her body her baby her choice. As is said often on Mumsnet. Whether it's a option you or anyone else would take is irrelevant

nocoolnamesleft · 31/03/2023 20:26

If she has capacity, she can make stupid decisions about her own health. The tragedy is that it is her baby who may pay the price.

Original poster

loop2u · 31/03/2023 20:27

Ive spoken to her and said I really think she should see a midwife, not just for her but for the sake of the baby!
Our other friend has said to her it's totally her choice, whatever makes her happy. Blah blah blah. I actually felt like I was being pushed away for my concerns.
She did eventually say maybe when she's around 16 weeks she would see one.

She's a very strong minded person who will not be told

OP posts:

thegrain · 31/03/2023 20:28

loop2u · 31/03/2023 20:27

Ive spoken to her and said I really think she should see a midwife, not just for her but for the sake of the baby!
Our other friend has said to her it's totally her choice, whatever makes her happy. Blah blah blah. I actually felt like I was being pushed away for my concerns.
She did eventually say maybe when she's around 16 weeks she would see one.

She's a very strong minded person who will not be told

That sounds like progress then. I'd leave it.

Potatomashed · 31/03/2023 20:28

It’s not normal but not unheard of. There is a growing movement of wild pregnancy and free birth.
Your friend is perfectly within her rights to take full personal responsibility for her pregnancy and baby. Nobody loves the baby more than she does. She’s an experienced mum and most would ask for help if they perceived something was off…

There are some benefits that engaging with maternity care can bring, especially for mums with complex health or social backgrounds. It sounds as if your friend is planning on engaging with some aspects of the care, having a scan either nhs or privately. She may find the midwives are willing to work with her to provide personalised care which she is happy to accept

ABriefHistoryOfThyme · 31/03/2023 20:28

The only legal requirement is that a birth is registered.
Not having antenatal care is not a reason for a safeguarding referral and should not be deemed a ‘red flag’.
If the NHS maternity services were not in such an state maybe women would engage with routine care.

OhwhyOY · 31/03/2023 20:29

OP I'd just be honest with her and tell her you're worried about the risk to her and her baby. Many private scan clinics are not proper medical professionals (unless she means private hospital scans) and are notorious for not picking up problems/scaring people with false information about conditions they think they've found when the baby is fine. Perhaps just say you were worried and so did a bit if research and you really think she should see a midwife. She can just ask to see a different one to before surely? I am seeing a midwife every couple of weeks at the moment and even the basic checks they do like urine test, measuring your bump etc (which a private scan clinic wouldn't do) can highlight risks to the baby. She may have a perfectly healthy pregnancy but equally she may not, and how would she feel if something happened to her baby just because she made a poor decision to avoid seeing a midwife?

DorritLittle · 31/03/2023 20:31

I would be too paranoid too. Would be beside myself actually. I suspect she will change her mind. Scans are there to monitor things medically and pick up life threatening complications in the baby not for reassurance. I also suspect she’d risk getting on a social worker’s watch list. And I’d want monitoring for things that might silently try and kill me like pre-eclampsia or gestational diabetes.

Potatomashed · 31/03/2023 20:31

ABriefHistoryOfThyme · 31/03/2023 20:28

The only legal requirement is that a birth is registered.
Not having antenatal care is not a reason for a safeguarding referral and should not be deemed a ‘red flag’.
If the NHS maternity services were not in such an state maybe women would engage with routine care.

This!
Whilst not engaging with antenatal care might be looked at in context of other safeguarding issues (non engagement due to a chaotic drug using lifestyle for instance), women taking an informed decision to care for themselves in pregnancy is no reason for a safeguarding referral.

Sparklesocks · 31/03/2023 20:31

How does it work for labour/delivery etc? Don’t they need a record of you in their system or can you just rock to the labour suite, or would she give birth at home/with private healthcare?
It’s her choice but I’d be worried about potentially missing checks that flag things like gestational diabetes, pre eclampsia etc and the impact that could have.

GoodChat · 31/03/2023 20:31

She's going to have scans and she's had 4 babies before. I don't think it's a major issue as long as the scans are done by medical professionals.

Curiosity101 · 31/03/2023 20:32

I've had two babies and found the community midwife appointments completely pointless. Other than routine blood tests to check iron levels you can do everything else yourself at home. And if you really wanted to you can get your bloods done privately/at home too.

Dip sticks for urine, blood pressure, fundal measurements... It's all pretty basic.

Although if she hasn't booked at all she'll find it hard to self refer to the antenatal baby clinic if she needs help prior to the baby arriving (like for reduced movement etc). She also won't get the free prescriptions/dental whilst pregnant without a maternity exemption. It doesn't have to be all or nothing though, do you think you could suggest she books with a midwife then declines the face to face community appointments (assuming it was her community midwife she didn't get on with)? At least then she'll be able to quickly access the right care if anything does go wrong?

Original poster

loop2u · 31/03/2023 20:33

She's also said she would like an home birth. Which I totally think would be amazing for her. But.. I've said to her she most defiantly would need an midwife for this and also what if baby is breach and so on.

OP posts:

DorritLittle · 31/03/2023 20:34

ABriefHistoryOfThyme · 31/03/2023 20:28

The only legal requirement is that a birth is registered.
Not having antenatal care is not a reason for a safeguarding referral and should not be deemed a ‘red flag’.
If the NHS maternity services were not in such an state maybe women would engage with routine care.

I think it would be noteworthy even if not a legal requirement.

Albiboba · 31/03/2023 20:35

GoodChat · 31/03/2023 20:31

She's going to have scans and she's had 4 babies before. I don't think it's a major issue as long as the scans are done by medical professionals.

The scans done at places like window to the womb are not medical scans. There have been many examples of a baby having severe abnormalities and the sonographer at these boutiques doesn’t report it or advise the parents of the findings.
They are not replacements for medical scans.

ToBeOrNotToBee · 31/03/2023 20:35

Women can refuse any care, including midwives.

If she wishes her GP can lead her care, it has been done before.