Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

No midwife

70 replies

loop2u · 31/03/2023 20:16

I know this is none of my business and totally up to my friend.

Not really aibu but thought I'd get more opinions here.

My good friend just told us all she's pregnant with her 4th child, happy for her.
I asked if she'd booked in with a midwife yet, She said no and that she's not this time due to bad experience with her last one. She's been looking online and women don't always have a midwife just pay for private scans for reassurance.

Is this a thing now, do women not bother with midwife's? I'd be be so worried and paranoid not getting the routine tests and checks.

OP posts:
GilligansKitchenIsland · 31/03/2023 20:36

She's not obliged to accept antenatal care or care during the birth. Some women do intentionally go through pregnancy and birth without any midwifery or medical care at all, and that is their legal right. (Whether it's sensible or not is another matter.) In themselves, unassisted pregnancy and birth don't constitute a safeguarding flag, and they're not supposed to be referred to social services purely on thar basis.
If she is planning to freebirth, she does have one legal obligation, which is to notify her local health board within 36 hours of the birth (in addition to registering the birth within 6 weeks as normal).
If she wants to go ahead with this, she really needs to think it through carefully and do her research to minimise any risk to herself or the baby. AIMS (Association for Improving Marernity Services) is a good starting point.

Everydayimhuffling · 31/03/2023 20:37

Stupidly dangerous to have a home birth with no midwife. I'd keep talking to her about it, but gently.

Curiosity101 · 31/03/2023 20:40

thegrain · 31/03/2023 20:23

I think once the due date gets nearer (does she even have a due date?!) Midwives are very useful.

Do you need a due date though? I'd calculated my due date prior to seeing any medical professionals. I knew the exact date I had ovulated. It's only a guide either way though, we all know baby's arrive when they arrive.

I'm curious though, why do you feel midwives are very useful specifically close to the due date (as opposed to generally throughout the whole pregnancy).

Dinopawus · 31/03/2023 20:40

With DC1 I booked in with the midwife at 4 & a half weeks.
DC2 - around 6 weeks.
DC3 about 8 or 9 weeks.
If I'd ever had a DC 4 I can quite imagine I'd have got around to it at about week 36.

Seriously, If your friend is planning on scans, she's having some antenatal care, but probably wanting to avoid the elements she knows well.

MisschiefMaker · 31/03/2023 20:42

Often medical professionals do more harm than good at the prenatal and neonatal stage. Fair enough if she wants to take her chances without.

Internationalwomendayheadquarters · 31/03/2023 20:42

I did this. I gave birth without a midwife present, deliberately so. Just my husband was there.

During pregnancy, I did have two scans and two midwife appointments and the midwife later checked that the baby was ok. I wouldn’t do it that way again, though.

AbsolutePixels · 31/03/2023 20:44

She has every right to decline care, however ill-advised that might be. I wonder if she would consider attending a birth reflection appointment so that an experienced midwife could explore with her what went wrong last time? Every hospital has a consultant midwife whose job it is the work with women who have very particular needs, including women who are planning to free birth due to previous bad experiences with the NHS. Even if after all that, your friend decides to decline care, the midwife can talk to her about how to spot if things are going wrong. Please make sure your friend knows she can call into her local maternity unit at any point if she feels something's going wrong with the pregnancy, she doesn't need to be booked with them.

Original poster
loop2u · 31/03/2023 20:45

Internationalwomendayheadquarters · 31/03/2023 20:42

I did this. I gave birth without a midwife present, deliberately so. Just my husband was there.

During pregnancy, I did have two scans and two midwife appointments and the midwife later checked that the baby was ok. I wouldn’t do it that way again, though.

That is really reassuring to hear

OP posts:
Albiboba · 31/03/2023 20:46

MisschiefMaker · 31/03/2023 20:42

Often medical professionals do more harm than good at the prenatal and neonatal stage. Fair enough if she wants to take her chances without.

Utterly ridiculous. Thousands of babies are saved every year due to prenatal medical intervention. What is the harm that outweighs that risk?

tobeornottobe1 · 31/03/2023 20:46

@loop2u I would suggest your friend books in with a hospital at the very least so she can safely deliver her baby at home or at hospital. If she doesn't want to attend any antenatal appointments that's up to her. In my 4th pregnancy I didn't bother either until I was nearer the end. By #4 you know more than some midwives!

Original poster
loop2u · 31/03/2023 20:46

AbsolutePixels · 31/03/2023 20:44

She has every right to decline care, however ill-advised that might be. I wonder if she would consider attending a birth reflection appointment so that an experienced midwife could explore with her what went wrong last time? Every hospital has a consultant midwife whose job it is the work with women who have very particular needs, including women who are planning to free birth due to previous bad experiences with the NHS. Even if after all that, your friend decides to decline care, the midwife can talk to her about how to spot if things are going wrong. Please make sure your friend knows she can call into her local maternity unit at any point if she feels something's going wrong with the pregnancy, she doesn't need to be booked with them.

Thank you. I will mention this

OP posts:
Newname221 · 31/03/2023 20:47

Albiboba · 31/03/2023 20:35

The scans done at places like window to the womb are not medical scans. There have been many examples of a baby having severe abnormalities and the sonographer at these boutiques doesn’t report it or advise the parents of the findings.
They are not replacements for medical scans.

Show quote history

Some places do medical scans. The place near me does scans which are carried out by the same two midwives who run the recurrent miscarriage clinic at a huge maternity hospital.

It depends what you book really.

Newname221 · 31/03/2023 20:50

I don’t actually think I had a midwife appointment til around 16weeks?

I did my booking over the phone and then I attended the hospital for my 12 week scan.

They definitely have far less appointments for subsequent babies than for first babies! Our scans are carried out completely separate and I think you can self refer to the hospital for those? I certainly did / I didn’t book in with my eldest until about 12 weeks because I’d already been seen in the early pregnancy unit.

Original poster
loop2u · 31/03/2023 20:51

Thanks all for your advice. I will take it all in and try and give her the best advice I can without sounding "judgy" if that's a word

OP posts:
Kidsaregrim · 31/03/2023 20:55

@Curiosity101 that opinion is quite offensive to midwives. Fundal height and BP measurement may be considered basic but have you ever had anyone turn up at your clinic with raging pre eclampsia that they had no idea they had? Have you seen a growth restricted baby that isn’t getting blood flow and is at serious risk? Do you think most women know how to join the dots of basic care to pick up a more serious condition or even the start of problem?

@loop2u not registering with maternity services IS a safeguarding concerned and it will be investigated as a concealed pregnancy. It would probably go to S17 and investigated. There is a difference to registering and then refusing medical care which is done within partnership with the service and the woman. She will still be offered appointments.

my advice would be to advise her to contact her services consultant midwife and discuss the concerns she previously had a make a plan to engage with care in the safest way but one in which she feels supported. Home births in low risk pregnancies are very safe. However, once baby is born they can take some time to tradition to life outside of utero. Does your friend know how to stimulate a baby to breathe? Will she be willing to be part of a continuity of care team so she can build up a relationship with her midwife and then have a home birth with her.

There are so many choices but she will need to engage

Albiboba · 31/03/2023 20:58

@Curiosity101 I've had two babies and found the community midwife appointments completely pointless.

The only reason you think this is because you were clearly lucky to have two healthy babies and two textbook pregnancies.

thegrain · 31/03/2023 21:02

Curiosity101 · 31/03/2023 20:40

Do you need a due date though? I'd calculated my due date prior to seeing any medical professionals. I knew the exact date I had ovulated. It's only a guide either way though, we all know baby's arrive when they arrive.

I'm curious though, why do you feel midwives are very useful specifically close to the due date (as opposed to generally throughout the whole pregnancy).

Show quote history

They are quite good at spotting problems that may mean surgery is required

Jamieleecurtain · 31/03/2023 21:07

If I had given birth without a midwife then both my children would be dead… well I would probably have died too the first time so I guess the second wouldn’t have happened. Nothing wrong with my general health or pregnancy before the birth.

mycoffeecup · 31/03/2023 21:12

Let's hope her poor baby won't be a contender for the Darwin award. I foresee no IM vitamin K, no vaccinations................

thegrain · 31/03/2023 21:13

mycoffeecup · 31/03/2023 21:12

Let's hope her poor baby won't be a contender for the Darwin award. I foresee no IM vitamin K, no vaccinations................

Fucking hell of course the baby won't. The baby can't decide any of that.

thegrain · 31/03/2023 21:14

Jamieleecurtain · 31/03/2023 21:07

If I had given birth without a midwife then both my children would be dead… well I would probably have died too the first time so I guess the second wouldn’t have happened. Nothing wrong with my general health or pregnancy before the birth.

Yes I was in a similar position.

philautia · 31/03/2023 21:26

Well she's not committing a crime but I think it's not the best move to reject midwife led care.

If she's in the UK it's an NHS service (so free) and you can request a different Trust if necessary.

stbrandonsboat · 31/03/2023 21:27

She needs to find out where the placenta is lying if nothing else 😬

MrsBarbaraLangerhans · 31/03/2023 21:32

I did not have a midwife for my last two pregnancies. I opted for GP care only. I chose this having been really let down by several midwives during my first pregnancy. Both me and my baby received substandard care from the community midwives. I have elective ceasarians for the last two births (the first 'natural' birth had left me with a catheter on leaving hospital as well as a full surgical repair 11 months later, and a prolapse several years further on). Not having a midwife was not done on a whim and my safety and that of my children was fully considered.

leaderofthelittles · 31/03/2023 21:33

loop2u · 31/03/2023 20:51

Thanks all for your advice. I will take it all in and try and give her the best advice I can without sounding "judgy" if that's a word

If you want to stay her friend I wouldn't be any advice. I'd suggest you actually do some listening to her.