To make you aware that surrogacy is going to be liberalised

[VestaTilley]

Today, the Law Commission have published their final recommendations to Government, calling for reform of surrogacy laws in the U.K.

The proposed change would make commissioning parents legal parents at birth. That means that the birth mother would never be regarded as the legal parent, nor would she be listed on the birth certificate.

This has been privately lobbied for behind closed doors, away from women and maternity groups for years. The Law Commission consulted in 2019, but never published their responses or said who had fed in to their consultation.

Law firms and surrogacy agencies are rubbing their hands with glee today: I feel physically sick.

They would have you believe surrogacy in this country is “altruistic”. This is not the case. Women can receive upwards of £20,000 per pregnancy in “expenses” - which is a huge financial incentive to a woman if they are from a poor background.

Do we want to live in a society which creates a servant class of women? Which takes babies away from their mothers at birth?

When pregnant we are all advised to bond with our babies, breastfeed if we can and speak to our babies in utero. How does the NHS square this advice with making it legal for a child to never legally have a connection to its own mother?

If you are in anyway concerned about these proposals please, please contact your MP and raise all the noise you can to try and stop this before it is too late:

https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/surrogacy-laws-to-be-overhauled-under-new-reforms-benefitting-the-child-surrogate-and-intended-parents/

My relatives did this. They're british but they used a US woman to carry the babies (twins) - and another woman's eggs - no idea why the difference -. It makes me really uneasy. Especially as they're both nearly 60 so will have children of 20 when they're pushing 80.

In the U.K. currently it is illegal to get paid for it as a job.

And it shouldn’t be a job. A woman’s body is not a workplace. Women are human people, not objects for sex buying or baby buying or anything else.

I think I'd actually be more comfortable with paid organ donation than surrogacy. A kidney is not a sentient individual so it doesn't matter so much that its needs and rights are not prioritised. (I'm NOT ok with paid organ donation, but as a comparison...)

As a pp pointed out puppies are kept with their mothers for eight weeks minimum for welfare reasons.

I am always agog at the type of people who view a baby as something that can be bought and sold, people who think you can stop puberty and people who think we should all be used as props in random people's decisions.

So your parents gavce a young girl money in exchange for a baby. You do realise the story you are telling is literally buying a baby. Is that something you are advocating as being acceptable in society and law?

Yep. I literally said my parents bought me. It's not something I would do - either buy a child or sell one, but it was a strange situation where an accidental and unwanted pregnancy turned into giving my parents another child.

I'm not interested in arguing the toss, just shared to say that all this talk about the effect in the baby....well this baby wouldn't know her genetic mother if she passed her on the street....and has no interest in her. So now argue the lasting effects?

You are all looking at this through the lens of being a mum and having a child who is wanted. Some women just want rid of that child and are happy to pass them over.

I am always agog at the type of people who view a baby as something that can be bought and sold, people who think you can stop puberty and people who think we should all be used as props in random people's delusions.

Having a baby for someone else that you know and love, maybe, but surrogacy for strangers, no, a child is not a commodity to buy and sell. This has become so common now and it's mainly to do with people's attitutes, they want a baby, they can't achieve it themselves so someone will have to have one for them because everyone's entitled to whatever they want and can pay for.
Years ago people used to adopt all the lovely new born babies, but that was because their DMs were given no choice but to give them up, now the majority of DC needing adoption are emotionally damaged by their bad parents and God forbid that someone who wants a child should take them - they want a new shiny baby like in the old days.
The one thing that connects the two is that it's always some poor woman who has to make the sacrifice for someone else

No, I am looking at this out of the lens of a person who does not believe that buying and selling other humans is morally, ethically or socially acceptable.

*I can imagine it's very difficult to accept that someone bough you to be their slave as a baby, as you weren't made to do excessive physical work.

It must also be difficult to think that your mother sold you on.*

Oh don't be so hysterical. Or maybe read my post properly. My parents love me and we still have a strong bond and the love I feel for them is unconditional.

I don't think of the woman who gave birth to me as my mother. In fact I don't think of her at all.

Unfortunately the reality that some of you are trying to paint of little babies being born into servitude and damaged for life is not the reality that I live, or many many other surrogate or adopted children experience.

@coeurnoir If your birth mother did not want to/could not keep a baby for financial reasons, but with the money she received for you could have and would have liked to, would that change how you feel about having been "bought"?

People make a choice to be a surrogate. They get paid for it. Of course, they shouldn’t have parental rights over the child, especially if not biologically theirs. Its absolutely right that the parents of the baby should get immediate custody without a legal battle. This isn’t a mother with her baby being taken - it’s a woman who views it as a job and a way to make money. She shouldn’t be allowed to just change her mind.

Bloody hell, do people really think like this?

We are talking about a human being. A baby is a person. Leaving aside your abhorrent views on the rights of the birth mother (which is what a surrogate is, regardless of whose eggs are used), this should be about the rights and best interests of the baby. What this document is advocating for would mean human newborn babies having less favourable treatment than newborn puppies and kittens which are bred for sale.

So you don't think women who use egg donors are mothers to their children?

Just because you are infertile doesn't give you the right to buy a baby. The baby in any surrogacy is always the afterthought, it's all about the commissioning parents, their wants and needs. The thing is to that baby the woman who has carried and given birth is their mother they didnt get the memo that they were being sold on, removing babies from their mother's at birth should be illegal. I don't really care why you want to buy a baby whether it's because of infertility, you are gay or just don't fancy being pregnant, it's wrong whatever the reason.

Oh, totally sucks that I spoil the narrative isnt it. You aren't thinking of the child at all. You are looking at this as a mother and projecting your feelings onto these babies.

As a mother the idea of handing over either of mine at birth filled me with a primal fear.

As a daughter of a wonderful mother who did everything for me except carry and give birth to me, the idea of growing up in a world where she wasn't my mum also fills me with a primal fear.

Have you ever suffered from infertility? I think unless you have then it’s hard to imagine how it makes people feel.

So buying and selling babies is fair game if you've experienced infertility?

I wouldn't give a shit.

Anyway, I feel I've derailed this and this is all far too hysterical for me. So I'll leave you to your discussions.

I went through years of infertility struggles but never once considered buying a baby 🤷 child trafficking in all forms is evil however you may like to dress it up.

Some women just want rid of that child and are happy to pass them over.

Thats ok then, they should just hand the baby over to the highest bidder - with no checks or balances to make sure those people are equipped to care for the child. Adoption processes are highly regulated for good reason.

https://thembeforeus.com/dear-legislative-allies-this-is-how-surrogacy-harms-children/

I am not saying that everything in this document is true but it makes for interesting reading.

I am a birth doula and we learn about the bonding hormones at birth between mother and father. Regardless of how loved and wanted babies who are born to surrogates have a bond in the uterus that is broken at birth and this intentional wound is inflicted on the child intentionally by those who are supposed to have the child's best interest at heart.

I see women and children who feel the effect of having been separated for short times at birth, many years after the event. When we ignore this deep connection and the importance of bonding in the hours after birth, we minimise the impact this has on babies and how that impacts them throughout their lives. There is not enough research on this.

Just want to say it is really interesting hearing your POV.

I can’t help but find it interesting that there is so much concern for the baby in this case but not for parents who have and keep them in terrible circumstances. People who can’t really afford another but decide to anyway despite the consequences to other children, people who really cannot raise a child well but can reproduce. There is so many ways biological and non-biological folk don’t care about children. Most people have children primarily because they want to not because they are great parents.

Have you ever suffered from infertility? I think unless you have then it’s hard to imagine how it makes people feel.

I have, and nothing in me would want to commission someone else to carry a child for me.

Maybe they could set up a baby shop.

Obviously only people who have experienced infertility could purchase there though. As they are the only ones who know how bad it feels and therefore it's ok.

Wonder what the baby shop cut off should be. 2? 3? Once they can talk it probably becomes problematic.