AIBU? Carers leave for a poorly toddler/baby

[ExcitingTimes2021]

Im a little worried about my position at work due to childcare issues. I’m probably over thinking it but it’s really bothering me. work for the NHS in a clinical role, as dose my partner.

I have currently have a poorly toddler at home, i was supposed to be on a long day shift today but after she has been up all night being sick and a temp I can’t send her to nursery obviously. I don’t have any family who can help look after her if she is poorly. So I have had to call in as I have no childcare.

I have checked my absence summary and since May last year I have only taken 1 other day of careers leave. My partner has taken 3 so it was my turn. My girl is always picking up bugs at nursery and through winter she has been poorly every few weeks with a temp. Due to COVID, strep A and all the other nasty bugs doing the rounds this winter the nursery has updated the policy so that children with a temp cannot come in until 24 hours free of a fever, where as before they could attend if calpol managed it and they where generally otherwise well in them selves. If they have been sick/loose stools then its a minimum 48 hours exclusion period.

All the other times she has been poorly I have just been lucky they have fallen on mine and my partners days off so we have managed it between us, just losing a lot of sleep. (We both work shifts).

The policy says you can only have three episodes of cares leave in a 12 months rolling period. My partners days are about the drop off, but now it means I only have one days carers leave to last until December! I understand that staff can’t have unlimited time off for unwell children but am I being unreasonable in thinking that young children only being poorly 3 days a year is wishful thinking on the part of the trust? Especially in the first few years when they literally pick up anything and everything going? she hasn’t even had any of the ‘big ones’ yet (hand, foot and mouth, chicken pox, scarlet fever etc). When I called in the early hours this morning they asked if no one else could take her for the day so I could come to work. If I had someone else I wouldn’t be paying more then my mortgage every month in nursery fees?

I know it puts a strain on the team when they are a staff member down but what can I do? We share her poorly days equally between me and partner so it’s ‘fair’. What do other parents with not much family support do?

I should also add I have had to take a few sick days this winter as she passes her bugs and viruses straight to me. Not enough to trigger the sickness/attendance management policy yet though.

Is the carers leave paid?

You can just ask for the leave to be approved as holiday the next time. Plenty of places are willing to sign it off as annual leave.

I'm NHS too, you should be able to use annual leave / unpaid leave for any future issues as long as you're being reasonable about it. It doesn't sound like you've used excessive days so I can't see an issue.

Can’t you use annual leave to cover some of the sick days?

Unpaid leave I think

paid or unpaid is at the discretion on the manager based on merit according to policy. I didn’t check if I got paid for the last episode I didn’t even think of it to be honest.
I would have requested annual leave except at the moment we are at the end of the annual leave year and I have no annual leave left. In April I think I will plan a little better and save a week for emergency leave. I’ll discuss it with my manager on my next shift.
it Just feels like and endless cycle of sickness at the moment! X

To add to my comment I do think it's reasonable of them to ask if someone else can take her. It is really hard to find cover in clinical roles and I have come across people who do have alternatives or who have a partner but don't share the days between them. I pay for a childminder but I'm lucky that my PIL can help on the odd day of illness, paying for childcare is no indication that you don't have other options.

It's a really hard time but things should get a bit easier as we move into the warmer months.

Yes I think you just need to make sure you have some annual leave left- in my job you can carry over 5 days so I would always try and “keep” that for an emergency. But I think the biggest factor is your boss- what are they like? I’ve always been lucky to have really understanding bosses who have also had their own kids so would never have made a major issue of this and would have either signed it off as leave with short notice or just given flexi-time informally. I’ve also found that a bit of give and take works wonders- so where I can I try to go beyond and help out, which has meant I think I benefitted from quite a bit of goodwill.

Look into parental leave. You get 18 weeks between now and when your child turns 18. It is unpaid and has to be taken in week-blocks. If you have a holiday planned, maybe use your parental leave for that and then you will have your annual leave to use more flexibly to cover your child's illnesses if you run out of carer days.

It's not being poorly for 3 days, it's 3 episodes. Each episode might be days long.

It's a tricky situation and I see both sides. But how can employers cope if say everyone who worked there had kids and each person was given a couple of weeks leave a year on top of their annual leave. And then their own sickness. I can understand that would be hard to manage.

It's a bigger debate really. The working world is not very well adapted to little ones. Long hours, extortionate childcare fees, sickness and bugs with no family help. I do think there should be something in place when you have kids that things shouldn't be frowned upon as much as they are.

Then you get the pisstakers. I have a friend who stays off for any little reason, and a couple of weeks at a time. I dont know how she still has her job, she will openly tell us she's milking it for more time off but she's obviously being believed.

You need to start saving some of your annual leave for family emergencies if you have a young child and no back up childcare.
Your employer isn’t being unreasonable for having a limit on paid carers leave.

It is an endless cycle of sickness with a toddler in nursery! I sympathise. We’re in the same situation and one of us has taken a day off every week for the past 6 weeks!

My managers already know that I don’t have family to help as both mine and partners mothers passed away recently… my dad is unwell himself and partners dad still work a full time. It just made me feel even worse about a shitty situation.

I do everything I can to get to my shifts. A few weeks ago she was poorly while I was on nights. I had to keep her off nursery so couldn’t get any rest during the day. Partner had to finish an hour earlier so I could attended my night shifts on time with no sleep. For a full week. I was so tired I crashed my car on the way home from my last shift of the week. That is my own stupid fault for not telling them I couldn’t do anymore but I felt I had to put up and shut up so to speak. Childcare is just hard for us and guess I was a bit naive as to how much young ones are poorly. I’m just feeling a bit shit this morning. At least its partners turn next time. It’s crazy as my partner works for the same trust yet their department is so much more understanding and flexible.

That seems quite a generous policy

To help- could you pay for her to have the chicken pox vaccine? It's £130 where we are for both doses and covers them at 90-95% efficacy for 10 years. HFM is brutal, but scarlet fever and slapped cheek really vary.

Totally get it, it's a nightmare. Mine are 2 and 4 and we're still up several times a night with both and when they're ill it's hell! It's such a hard time but it will get better eventually. Really sorry to hear about your mothers, it sounds like you've had a hard time lately. I hope it gets better soon.

thanks for your replies everyone. I think I am overthinking it, as I’m know I’m not a pisstaker. I know I do my best. I’m just feeling sorry for myself.

just to be clear through I’m not expecting any time off to care for my children to be paid. It being paid didn’t honestly cross my mind. I just think three days (paid or unpaid) seams a little unrealistic but I guess that’s my opinion and I’m just panicking as I don’t want to be punished for something beyond my control. Iv always been a worrier. I’ll have a chat with my manager.

I'd say that's quite realistic. Especially if you can use annual leave too. Why did you use all your annual leave? Was that sickness too

It depends how good your manager is often but in the past when I’ve had strict ones I kept some annual leave spare; it’s rubbish having to use annual leave like that but necessary

It's not three days - it's three 'periods'. So, if she does get Chicken Pox and you're off for a week, it's only one period.

You're smack in the middle of the worst age for this, so it will only get easier as she gets older. I know it's tough when you've no back up (we were the same) but, being honest, your policies are a lot more generous than most workplaces.

You could save a couple of days apiece annual leave moving forward, but honestly, given the state of clinical staffing in the NHS at the moment, I highly doubt anything's going to happen except a bit of a meeting and a slap on the wrist if you do exceed the policy.

Put it out of your mind, acknowledge that you're doing all you can and already sharing 50/50 if you're challenged on it, and forget about it.

It's not three days - it's three 'periods'. So, if she does get Chicken Pox and you're off for a week, it's only one period. that's super generous. I get 2 paid days and 8 unpaid days. Throughout my whole employment.

I used all my annual leave as there is 2 days left of the current annual calendar and the trust policy is you can only carry over annual leave in exceptional circumstances such as unable to take due to maternity leave, long term sickness or your annual leave was cancelled due to staff shortage. It’s use it or lose it unfortunately.

yes also three days of this years annual leave as used when my daughter lovingly passed on D+V to me so I didn’t need to take it as sick leave.

It's absolutely brutal with young children, I know people say about the illness and its well known they're poorly a lot but until you experience it and trying to juggle working with looking after them It's hard to conceptualise just how hard it is. That said It's the same for a lot of people, it's far from ideal but managers and employers no doubt know what it's like. The key is to be as proactive as you can, you don't have help (not that unusual especially for a poorly child to be fair) but their dad does his share too (as he should but many don't!). You could maybe speak to your manager and figure out a plan ie what options if there are further instances- I did a combo of unpaid and annual leave; or if you have a women's network they can be useful for support?

After you have used up your carers leave and annual leave you still have a statutory right to unpaid emergency leave for dependents. Read this link for more info. Time off for family and dependants: Your rights - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

We don't have any family support to help with sickness so both keep annual leave for emergencies. It means we don't get much guaranteed time off together as a family, but we just need to live with that. For people without family support I assume that is quite common.

Me and my DH both work in primary care at different times practices, me non-clinical and him clinical. We both have the same policy as you, 3 paid days carers leave each month pro-rata for PT. We both work PT, my carers leave annual allowance isn't even a full working day hah. His practice are super understanding and he takes all other leave as annual leave. I am having a dispute with HR in my practice as they're refusing to let me do that, even though I have loads of annual leave, and insisting I have to take the additional leave unpaid. Like you, there is not usually anyone who can help us out with childcare.

I think for the 3 days it's 3 separate occasions, maximum 1 day each and basically just to find alternate childcare if needed for the following day onward... but is at manager's discretion.
It sucks not having family about, I'm so glad my partner is non-medical as it must be so hard to juggle otherwise and the guilt about letting down your team is not fun. I picked up a lot of bugs though so ended with fair bit of sick leave rather than needing to use carer's leave, found this easier to justify as well!
Can you drop your hours? We only survived the first year as I was part time 50% so could typically cover most of the illnesses. Then my partner holds onto about a week of annual leave until the end to allow for emergency annual leave/childcare cover. Once they're 2 and done a year in nursery they do become a bit more robust and can look at upping hours then as not having to cover constant sickness😪Obvs not affordable for everyone though.