To vote YES to the proposed RCN pay deal

girlmuma · 2023-03-29T07:02:13+00:00

The proposed 5% pay deal with, back pay for the year 22/23 and a one of bonus payment is out for ballot. According the small print, the government may withdraw the offer in the event of a NO vote. AIBU to vote YES to the deal? The lump sum would be a saviour at the moment, and I honestly can't see an offer greater than 5% on the table. Would the government withdraw it altogether? As it stands. The 5% offer translates to an £11.80 rise a day. This is equal to a pay rise of £1.02 an hour. [confused]

Fluffodils · 29/03/2023 08:03

Do what you want. That's the point of the vote.

Mangomingo · 29/03/2023 08:04

The union is recommending we vote yes aren’t they?

Original poster

girlmuma · 29/03/2023 08:05

To add. I've avoided asking colleagues how they'll vote as it's personal and not everyone is comfortable sharing their intentions.

Keen to see what the consensus is if there are any nurses out there..

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Fluffodils · 29/03/2023 08:05

If you are happy with it vote yes. If you aren't vote no.

Original poster

girlmuma · 29/03/2023 08:06

Fluffodils · 29/03/2023 08:05

If you are happy with it vote yes. If you aren't vote no.

In all honesty I am not happy with it. But the caveat that the government may withdraw the deal in the event of a NO vote is on my mind.

OP posts:

Original poster

girlmuma · 29/03/2023 08:06

Mangomingo · 29/03/2023 08:04

The union is recommending we vote yes aren’t they?

Yes, they are.

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Toddlerteaplease · 29/03/2023 08:07

I was going to vote for it. But then heard what Scotland are getting. And the most indispensable person on my ward. The receptionist is not happy to be getting paid the same as the porters and domestics. So not sure. I love my job and don't feel particularly hard done by.

Onlyhope · 29/03/2023 08:08

I'd vote no based on the scotland pay offer being higher.
It's disastrous for any trusts on the border

Toddlerteaplease · 29/03/2023 08:09

I also sorry that if we reject it, that the government with tell us to stuff it then. And I don't want anymore strikes.

Original poster

girlmuma · 29/03/2023 08:09

Toddlerteaplease · 29/03/2023 08:07

I was going to vote for it. But then heard what Scotland are getting. And the most indispensable person on my ward. The receptionist is not happy to be getting paid the same as the porters and domestics. So not sure. I love my job and don't feel particularly hard done by.

Interesting that because the pay rise will be for the agenda for change, all professions that use the spine will be in receipt of a rise. Opens up the debate whether it is fair. I lost wages to strike, should everyone else benefit too? Not sure what the right answer is. But you make a good point about receptionist.

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ThisMustBeMyDream · 29/03/2023 08:10

I voted no. It's still a pay cut in real terms.

ALittleBitAlexa · 29/03/2023 08:14

I think it's probably as good as you'll get, not that I agree with that. And remember we pay slightly higher rates of tax in Scotland so we basically just pay that extra percent back

bignope · 29/03/2023 08:15

Not a nurse but NHS and it's a no. This offer is insulting.

They always threaten to withdraw offers but in reality if they dare try there will be such a shit storm I don't think they would.

LadyLolaRuben · 29/03/2023 08:22

Look at the offer the barristers, fire service and other public sectors are getting. Nurses getting the lowest offer of them all. Is it because they're mostly women grateful for anything? Im senior non-clinical NHS but I'm thinking of rejecting it for the nurses

LadyOfACertainAge · 29/03/2023 08:24

It’s hard when they’ve dangled the carrot of one off bonus. Firmly sitting in the fence here as the 5% is for next year so not addressing the loss of pay up until this point. Plus I am vehemently against the separate pay scale for nurses - there are recruitment issues in lots of other professions and everyone deserves not to lose money each year. The separate pay scale would mean nurses get uplifted each year whilst everyone else has to beg for the crumbs. Utterly divisive.

Toddlerteaplease · 29/03/2023 08:25

Shame the lump sum
Isn't tax free.

milafawny · 29/03/2023 08:26

Are you band 2?

For reference, band 2 increments have been removed, so a newly starting band 2 now earns the same as an experienced HCA would can do venepuncture etc. The band 2 rise is also much more than 5%

This also means that the degree educated nurses would get less than £2 per hour more than a completely unqualified HCA. Do you think that is fair? it also means that 48% of nurses can never earn over £34.5k.

It also put nurses in England £2k or more behind nurses in Scotland. Scotlands pay also being based off a 36 hours week, not a 37.5 hour week, so the pay disparity is actually more. And nurses trained in scotland dont have the student debt repayments we do. Despite a vote in favour, the scottish deal is still unfair.

We need to stay strong together, vote no, and hold out until what they put on the table atleast matches the scottish offer. We need to have 36 hour standard working week. We need them to atleast acknowledge staffing levels, and have conversation towards policy for safe staffing that is enforceable.

milafawny · 29/03/2023 08:31

the lump sum is also taxable, and pension will be deducted, so what you get wont even be close to the amount shown.

LittleMrsPerfect · 29/03/2023 08:45

It's taxable but not pensionable.

I am not a nurse but am AFC and I agree with you that I think it's the best the government will offer.

Onlyhope · 29/03/2023 08:47

It has to be across all the pay bands/ professional groups

Other professions are in a bad state eg. Radiographers, paramedics, theater staff etc

They may not catch headlines as much but are essential to the running of the nhs.
Many roles traditionally held by nurses have long been held by AHPs. For example our ward manager is an OT, I'm in a leadership role in which I line manage multiple nurses without being a nurse. When we recruit for things like primary workers it's often put out as a OT/nurse/social worker post, it would be wrong to have people with identical job descriptions being paid differently based on profession. We don't get any applicants from any back grounds so its not like we are tripping over the other ahps

We cant recruit social workers for essential trust roles because we can't compete with the wage the council will give them. The same with OT.

Ultimately people across professional groups have to actively ignore some fairly aggressive head hunting with more money in order to stay in the nhs. In the last year, I've been approached by a GP surgery, private health care facilities , dwp assessments and more offering up to 3 times as much as my current wage. We've just lost a b5 ot to capita, offering an equivalent to a b7-8 wage, and b6 nurse to a gp surgery offering a b8 wage

It used to be that you didn't have to work hard to recruit unqualified bands eg hca's, support workers but now we often don't get a single experienced applicant.

Currently the band 3 wage is £10.50 ish an hour which encompasses a lot of our admin, support workers etc working tricky jobs. My local asda pays the same and for people in these bands, so we have lost one to that there is a direct competition in a way that there isn't for nurses etc. Why be a cleaner in the nhs dealing with all that comes with it, if you could clean else where?. Increasingly things like hca's are seen as not a career and as a temporary job when actually most client contact on a ward, and the most numerous profession will be a hca. People need to be able to afford to stay in post

We need more nurses of course, but in general we need the whole family in order to make things work

youshouldnthaveasked · 29/03/2023 08:49

It’s an agenda for change paydeal. The RCN are just facilitating the vote for nurses.

lipstickwoman · 29/03/2023 08:50

It would be a big fat no from me (retired).

Original poster

girlmuma · 29/03/2023 09:02

milafawny · 29/03/2023 08:26

Are you band 2?

For reference, band 2 increments have been removed, so a newly starting band 2 now earns the same as an experienced HCA would can do venepuncture etc. The band 2 rise is also much more than 5%

This also means that the degree educated nurses would get less than £2 per hour more than a completely unqualified HCA. Do you think that is fair? it also means that 48% of nurses can never earn over £34.5k.

It also put nurses in England £2k or more behind nurses in Scotland. Scotlands pay also being based off a 36 hours week, not a 37.5 hour week, so the pay disparity is actually more. And nurses trained in scotland dont have the student debt repayments we do. Despite a vote in favour, the scottish deal is still unfair.

We need to stay strong together, vote no, and hold out until what they put on the table atleast matches the scottish offer. We need to have 36 hour standard working week. We need them to atleast acknowledge staffing levels, and have conversation towards policy for safe staffing that is enforceable.

I'm top of band 6

OP posts:

Original poster

girlmuma · 29/03/2023 09:05

milafawny · 29/03/2023 08:26

Are you band 2?

For reference, band 2 increments have been removed, so a newly starting band 2 now earns the same as an experienced HCA would can do venepuncture etc. The band 2 rise is also much more than 5%

This also means that the degree educated nurses would get less than £2 per hour more than a completely unqualified HCA. Do you think that is fair? it also means that 48% of nurses can never earn over £34.5k.

It also put nurses in England £2k or more behind nurses in Scotland. Scotlands pay also being based off a 36 hours week, not a 37.5 hour week, so the pay disparity is actually more. And nurses trained in scotland dont have the student debt repayments we do. Despite a vote in favour, the scottish deal is still unfair.

We need to stay strong together, vote no, and hold out until what they put on the table atleast matches the scottish offer. We need to have 36 hour standard working week. We need them to atleast acknowledge staffing levels, and have conversation towards policy for safe staffing that is enforceable.

I would find a band 2 being paid the same as an experienced HCA hard to swallow. I am a 6 and a good HCA has saved my bacon on MANY a shift. Many of them are 5s in all but name. For a band 2 to be paid the same as that is unacceptable in my view.

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Battlecat98 · 29/03/2023 09:15

I have voted no. It is insulting when you look at others, the firefighters didn't even need to go through with their strike. I can see how people are drawn to the lump sum and i assume that was the idea behind it.
We do need to follow Scotland and have a 36 hour week and the band 5 role needs addressing.