To vote YES to the proposed RCN pay deal

[girlmuma]

The proposed 5% pay deal with, back pay for the year 22/23 and a one of bonus payment is out for ballot. According the small print, the government may withdraw the offer in the event of a NO vote. AIBU to vote YES to the deal? The lump sum would be a saviour at the moment, and I honestly can't see an offer greater than 5% on the table. Would the government withdraw it altogether?

As it stands. The 5% offer translates to an £11.80 rise a day. This is equal to a pay rise of £1.02 an hour.

I’m in Scotland and as far as I’ve read the new pay deal only includes an agreement by the Government to conduct a review into the possibility of reducing the working week- I very much expect they will conclude their feasibility study and say it’s not possible. As it stands we had our back pay for 22/23 and are due a further lump sum in April as part of the 23/24 pay award but our hours remain at 37.5

I am voting yes, although it's pittance we won't get anything better and it'll drag things out even more. Staff members can't really afford anymore strike days as they are unpaid.

I actually don't agree with nurses coming off AFC pay scales. It would mean everyone else within the NHS would get no rise at all when wards and hospitals are completely dependent on the other jobs to make things work. My suggestion would be everyone goes up a banding, therefore nurses starting point would be a band 6, HCA go to a band 4 (although still grossly underpaid) etc etc. it would never happen though,

I mean that's pretty normal in any negotiation. You can't refuse an offer and then change your mind and expect it still to be there.

Do what you like re the offer though. I won't have a 5% pay rise (other than for promotion/ performance) any time soon though, nor have I had one for years. And I am in the grabby private sector ;)

I haven't decided how to vote yet, I need to sit and read the deal. I'm on mat leave so a bit out of the loop.
Colleagues appear to be unhappy and voting no according to our ward WhatsApp. They want what Scotland have been offered.

I'm an AHP and it's a big fat no from me.

After tax and prorata the "one off payment" won't be even close to what's advertised

It's a shit deal, and saying we will get nothing better is just typical Tory bully boy tactics, shame on the unions for telling us to accept

Im up for striking but my union (unison) needs to seriously get their act together so we can stand in solidarity with the paramedics and nurses ✊✊

I think this is starting to happen in reality at least with rmns where I am. It might be slightly different because I'm in a mental health Trust as opposed to being consigned to ward structure

When I qualified 10 years ago, it was common to spend a few years as a b5, now we see lots of b5 pushing up to b6 by the end of preceptorship. Lots of our 5 posts are now just development posts to take you up to a 6 after a year/18 months, some of our 5's have been offered 6's by other services before the end of the 12 months.

We had to axe a b5 rotation for newly qualifieds because every one of the 5 on it had left to be come a 6 by the end of the 12 months.

We are also seeing an increase in converting unattractive 6 posts into specialist 7s. Theres no point us repetively putting out multiple b6 that's not answered, so it gets converted into b7 posts for things like duty practitioners etc

It's an issue in that it really hides the level of vacancies. In 2017 staffing my team would have been short 6 b6 posts which we couldn't recruit to, now we have converted most of them to other posts eg. 1 b7, 2 support workers, an admin post to support clinicians and now just have 2 vacancies which looks better on paper and in trust figures. It also means our budget is tied up so while we are crying out for 6's we actually don't have the budget for it anymore even if we could recruit. The increase in b7 specialist posts and support posts takes some of the strain of the b6's but they are still covering far more cases then then would before in what looks like a well staffed team

@Stelmosfire1 thank you, lots of misinformation on this thread regarding the Scottish deal. We're still very much working 37.5 hour weeks (plus the unpaid overtime we all do) and I agree, I can't see it changing. They can't staff the service as it is. Also everyone ignoring the different tax rates in Scotland. We pay 21% on anything over 25k and 41% once we hit 43k, so it does make sense that Scotland should be paid a bit more.

I Didn't realise that Scotland paid higher taxes. HCA's need to be at least a band 3, they can't be 4's due to Nurse associates being 4's.

I voted reject - its an insult for all NHS staff. Fire service get in total 12%.
I voted reject for the future staff as I am now thinking of retiring, another 5 years tops for me then I am out of it.
I have loved my job but these last 10 years I have seen a marked difference in the NHS.
If we accept it then the strikes were for nothing.
I am also looking at joining UNITE as they seem to be the only union on the side of the workers.

But dont most Scottish nurses have no student debt tho? So the take home is higher?

The thing is with the lump sum payment is that it does nothing for retention and recruitment.

Thanks a bit of extra money helps ME and NOW.

But what about the students qualifying next year, or the nurses of the future? Voting yes to the lump sum does not help entice them in or to stay. For that reason I'll be voting no.

Wouldn't have thought so, our tuition fees are covered but students still need to take loans for living expenses so most will be making repayments. I had a very small student loan (still the max available to me at the time due to SAAS's ridiculous rules about parental income, despite the fact my parents couldn't afford to give me money) and still only paid it off 8 years after graduation despite a good wage. Lots of Scottish students live with their parents during uni to reduce costs, which might sound great debt-wise but it does mean a massive sacrifice of your 'uni experience'.

Will I accept that offer and if my pay doesn't increase significantly in the next 12 months I will leave the NHS.