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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why there is no support?

113 replies

drspouse · 27/03/2023 11:59

We have DS who is 11 and has ADHD and a lot of challenging behaviour and DD who is 8. DS is in a specialist school and though he likes a lot of aspects of the school he is still challenging there. He is actually probably better at home -though he is on a hair trigger at both places we find he settles down more easily at home.

We feel like the best ways to help DS are to work out what's an issue for him (but we do not remove everything that's causing him difficulty, partly because we can't - e.g. he slapped me because I turned on the wrong TV for him - I had no idea which one he wanted and I didn't have a problem with him watching the other TV, until he slapped me; and we also know that if he is learning a new skill he will resist as hard as possible but we are not doing everything for him for ever more, though he'd like that) and trying as hard as possible not to react to it.

DH struggles more than me with his behaviour in that he is more likely to be reactive but I can't help myself reacting sometimes and DD shrieks when he does anything to her (ranging from growling at her to attempting to strangle her). DS attacks me more than DH but DH is not exempt either. A few weeks ago we came back from holiday, we asked both DCs to help get bags in the house/sort out what they wanted for dinner/get plates etc. and DS broke a window and a mirror (and quite a few plates).

We called the Social Services emergency number, were told we'd get help and this help consisted of an email detailing the local self-referral for mental health support (we've both maxed out our annual allowance of this) and links to online support groups (for an 11 year old who isn't allowed on the internet on his own and who wouldn't know where to start with this kind of thing anyway, and who says he doesn't want any friends).

Last week he slapped me and pulled my hair when I told him about something we were planning, then threatened to throw a carving knife at me, we called the police who were honestly excellent and said we'd be escalated for additional help. We had a phone call and were told that one person (not two, so as not to overwhelm DS) would come round around tea time as this is a pinch point for us and we really need some advice on how to handle it.

What we got was Early Help were two people (sigh) came round and... you guessed it... gave us links to online groups, hilariously told us about a "group for 0-11 year olds with SEN" which I was slightly puzzled about in January as it meets at 1.30 on a school day so I rang up and they said "It's a typo, it's for 0-5". They are the third group to tell us about this "group". They said they can't give us any direct advice. They also suggested a parenting course!

Last time Early Help came round they suggested sticker charts and that we should "stick some house rules on the fridge". Oh, and a parenting course (we actually did one that was semi-helpful, directed at children with ADHD.)

Both DCs are adopted but when we have asked for help from the Adoption Support Fund it has either been things we cannot access or things we know DS won't participate in (e.g. parenting courses that we must both attend when we have no babysitting, but they won't accept us unless we both attend, or a therapy session on Zoom that would take DS out of school for a day a week and we'd both have to reduce our working hours just to do it).

I am currently seeing a counsellor privately and I try to do things that help me stay calm (mainly exercise/Pilates at the moment but I've also done a lot of mindfulness in the past). I'm doing better than DH at reacting to DS and I think this helps but I'm not perfect and I don't think DH feels able to help himself at the moment. DS knows which buttons to press (I'm going to break your glasses Daddy) and DH responds. I've asked DH not to even discuss what we are doing in front of DS because DS has the idea that Daddy would let him do what he wanted if it wasn't for stupid Mummy, but DH gets wound up too and tends to tell me I won't let him have any ideas (not helpful, DH, not helpful).

We've asked for mental health support for us (I think DH would do something that was "provided for him" but he doesn't have any confidence that a "mindfulness course" would help him or that he'd even be able to do it, and we've asked for direct advice in the home about how to deal with DS. We've also asked for respite. We are waiting for a disability team assessment but last time we asked we were told DS "isn't disabled enough".

How is there NOTHING for us? We are at the point where we cannot keep DD safe, and when DS is bigger then him attacking me will not just be annoying/causing bruises but actively unsafe. We can't even find anything that we can pay for (we are both professionals and we can pay for help in the home/courses/counselling/respite but can't find anything that helps, or any carers who can cope with DS). Being professionals seems to work against us TBH - we are supposed to be free to go to lots of parenting courses during school hours, and not to question what we are told, but if the social workers say "oh you should do this parenting course or go to this group" we are supposed to say "oh yes thank you we are much better now" but instead I look up the parenting course and find that it has no proven outcomes with children of his age with ADHD, or that the group isn't actually for his age, or in fact doesn't exist.

Do they actually want us to put DS in foster care? Is that what they think we should do? Or for a vulnerable 11 year old who needs a hug at bedtime to go to boarding school? Or are they going to wait till it breaks down even further and DD is actually hurt badly and then she will be removed?

Is there actually anybody that the current system helps? Does a parenting course and a sticker chart make a difference to any families who have a child older than a toddler? We aren't even in the worst possible situation - I know there are families with teenagers that are even harder to deal with and have much more power in the household, and children with much less manageable disabilities than our DS who need physical help, who don't sleep etc. etc.

Well done if you've made it to the end! If you have any experience at all of anything that ACTUALLY HELPS I'd love to hear it but if you are also in the same boat please feel free to vent as well.

OP posts:
Lieinrequired · 27/03/2023 12:08

All I can offer is sympathy and understanding. We are in a very similar boat (ASD). Have done a parenting course, have regular meetings with school. DC often violent and also suicidal. I have received ‘helpful’ suggestions to keep knives away and windows locked. No actual support.

Newbold Hope on Facebook has some useful resources.

drspouse · 27/03/2023 12:13

I didn't find Newbold Hope that helpful - it just made me feel sad for the children - the main pillars seem to be "don't worry be happy" (Yvonne Newbold seems to have been able to take anything without reacting at all while this is one of our main problems, especially for DD but also for us), and "don't ever ask your child to do anything" which led to one girl spending her whole time naked in a blanket dripping menstrual blood but STILL perpetually angry with her siblings and parents.

We had DS telling us how to kill him and CAMHS said he didn't meet criteria for referral. He was 9.

OP posts:
Lieinrequired · 27/03/2023 12:16

CAMHS are unbelievably useless.

FannyPhart · 27/03/2023 12:18

I hate to say it but there seem to be an awful lot of obstacles being put in the way here? find it hard to believe it's humanly impossible arrange for someone a neighbour, friend, relative to babysit for an hour so you can both attend parenting classes together? It appears that's what is clearly needed.

MatildaTheCat · 27/03/2023 12:19

This makes me so sad and angry on your behalf. I don’t have any answers for you but I’m guessing you have explored every possible adoption support agency/ organisation going? This type of issue is so incredibly common among adopted children.

Wishing you all the best in the world.

berksandbeyond · 27/03/2023 12:20

FannyPhart · 27/03/2023 12:18

I hate to say it but there seem to be an awful lot of obstacles being put in the way here? find it hard to believe it's humanly impossible arrange for someone a neighbour, friend, relative to babysit for an hour so you can both attend parenting classes together? It appears that's what is clearly needed.

If OP was my friend or neighbour I would want to help but I also wouldn’t feel I could look after this child and keep them (and others) safe. So it’s not really that simple!

coopy10 · 27/03/2023 12:21

Ask to move this post to adoption, you will get supportive replies there. AIBU is not the place for this

drspouse · 27/03/2023 12:23

FannyPhart · 27/03/2023 12:18

I hate to say it but there seem to be an awful lot of obstacles being put in the way here? find it hard to believe it's humanly impossible arrange for someone a neighbour, friend, relative to babysit for an hour so you can both attend parenting classes together? It appears that's what is clearly needed.

You are joking, right?
My parents won't babysit DS, and live 2 1/2 hours away. My inlaws are dead (and would be over 100 if they were still around). The care agency that used to give us 1 evening a month can't find any carers (and the last 3 that came, left after just a few sessions due to DS behaviour).

OP posts:
OriginalUsername2 · 27/03/2023 12:26

What would support actually look like to you?

RedCarsGoFaster · 27/03/2023 12:28

Did you adopt via the local social services team or another adoption agency?

Are the social workers who have been out any part of the post adoption support team?

Ref the post adoption support fund - you might want to mention to SS that this adoption is at risk of breaking down in order to access it. It might not be what's at the forefront of your mind, but it's certainly a significant risk here for you all.

Have a read of the criteria and email the SS adoption / post adoption team directly. Use lots of the buzz words from the criteria which they can't ignore - adoption breakdown, need for urgent intervention, need for essential therapeutic services for you, your son and your daughter, and need for an urgent reassessment of your family's support needs.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/adoption-support-fund-asf,

Adoption support fund (ASF)

Local authorities and regional adoption agencies (RAAs) can apply for therapeutic funding for eligible adoptive and special guardianship order families.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/adoption-support-fund-asf

Therellbenobutterinhell123 · 27/03/2023 12:35

What support do you actually think would be beneficial to your family? Its important to think about this.
Is your son currently on any medication? Is this an avenue that you could follow?
Has your son got any other issues apart ADHD? Things such as foetal alcohol syndrome, being born addicted to drugs, attachment issues, ptsd etc are very common in adopted children and unfortunately not all parents are fully informed of these dangers.
Support for you and your son might look completely different?
Have you had a carers assessment from your La? Could you look at a carers personal budget? Could your daughter look into the local young carers association to give her a break?

Therellbenobutterinhell123 · 27/03/2023 12:47

https://www.youngminds.org.uk/

Sorry, just to add to my previous post. This is the link to the "Young Minds" website. They help parents who are worried about their childs mental health with tips, info, advice online and have things such as Parents helpline that you can ring for additional support. I know it won't change your situation but you never know there might just be one bit of info that you could gleam that could be helpful. Things such as learning some grounding techniques for the whole family could help?

YoungMinds | Mental Health Charity For Children And Young People

YoungMinds are a mental health charity for children, young people and their parents, making sure all young people can get the mental health support they need.

https://www.youngminds.org.uk

Stinkysockz · 27/03/2023 12:57

sadly this situation is very common, with parents on their knees and families imploding due to lack of real strategy or support. And yes they will expect you to hit total crisis before real help arrives. Sticker charts and parenting courses won’t cut the mustard for most. What you need is a full assessment and strategies liked to your individual child. Respite too.

I’d recommend EVERY incident is logged with the police or adoption social worker. As always those the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so keep talking to professionals. Make a pain of yourself.

pay for the child’s initial assessment if necessary, if it means being seen quicker. Look into medication for child. Behaviour like this often comes from anxiety and results in controlling and heightened behaviours.

stratagies: routines might be best organised by your child to give them some control? Reordering small picture cards/symbols of brushing teeth, pj’s, bed, reading, whatever.

Create space to allow deescalation if required. Go sit in the garden with a cup of tea. Change rooms.

does your child have a quiet safe space he can willingly go to if upset.

does your child enjoy sensory experiences, long baths, relaxing music, coloured lighting, playing with mud/sand, colouring, cooking, swings and slides in the park. Helping your child be well connected his body can help.

JanglyBeads · 27/03/2023 13:14

Ring these people, they support loads of families in your kind of situation, they will understand how desperate you are feeling, I promise

www.naotp.com/about-us

Tietheapron · 27/03/2023 13:58

I’m not going to offer advice as I just don’t know, but I am a bit annoyed by the claim that

find it hard to believe it's humanly impossible arrange for someone a neighbour, friend, relative to babysit for an hour so you can both attend parenting classes together? It appears that's what is clearly needed.

I would struggle with this for one (as far as I know) NT toddler. For a preteen who threatens with knives and so on it’s hardly shocking, is it?

drspouse · 27/03/2023 14:10

We tried NATP but they just say "keep calm" which we find impossible, I know a lot of parents feel like they are quite directive, to put it mildly. It was a therapeutic parenting course that we weren't allowed to go on unless both of us went to all their sessions (but I'm not sure if it was them).

To answer a PP, I appreciate my OP was long, we feel we need:
Mental health support for us, not to get so angry with each other and DS (especially DH).
Respite for DS so we can spend time with DD (and some wrap around care but that's a pipe dream).
Help with our day to day interactions with DS beyond "just keep calm and don't react".
DS has a diagnosis and is on meds. He's like this on high levels of meds, low levels of meds, or no meds (but he's worse).

The absolute last thing DD needs is more time away from us. She never gets any time with us without The DS Show. She has told us she wants a new family because she doesn't want to live with DS any more.

OP posts:
drspouse · 27/03/2023 14:13

Therellbenobutterinhell123 · 27/03/2023 12:47

https://www.youngminds.org.uk/

Sorry, just to add to my previous post. This is the link to the "Young Minds" website. They help parents who are worried about their childs mental health with tips, info, advice online and have things such as Parents helpline that you can ring for additional support. I know it won't change your situation but you never know there might just be one bit of info that you could gleam that could be helpful. Things such as learning some grounding techniques for the whole family could help?

There's nothing on there we haven't been told a million times. I'm afraid we are way way beyond reading about grounding techniques online.

OP posts:
drspouse · 27/03/2023 15:01

I should add: that's not to say that we can't learn anything.
It's just that clearly telling me/DH how to support DS through online tips and tricks and general principles isn't working. DH's mental health in particular is awful (I've also posted that he has T1 diabetes and can get snippy because of that and I think him feeling out of control of his reactions is a vicious cycle even without DS reactions).

OP posts:
Nsky62 · 27/03/2023 15:10

I’m bold enough to say, I think your son needs residential care, seems far too much, especially for your daughter, imagine for her having, no real say?
Having worked in care, very challenging for staff………tho far worse for parents.
Meds and respite won’t do much good I feel

JanglyBeads · 27/03/2023 15:25

But NAOTP say a lot more than "keep calm" and they also offer 1:1 parenting support (in various ways, some of it free) and support for children too?

momtoboys · 27/03/2023 15:28

Nsky62 · 27/03/2023 15:10

I’m bold enough to say, I think your son needs residential care, seems far too much, especially for your daughter, imagine for her having, no real say?
Having worked in care, very challenging for staff………tho far worse for parents.
Meds and respite won’t do much good I feel

OP, would residential care be possible?

Jellycatspyjamas · 27/03/2023 15:36

You’ve given lots of examples of what won’t work, what do you think will work. I’ve had to be very clear in looking for support for my two D.C. who are adopted. My DD11 has DDP through CAMHS which has been incredibly helpful, she also has therapeutic life story work which again has been tough but has helped her enormously. She has specialist SALT input for language processing difficulties which has helped her mood and behaviour because I’ve learned how to explain things in a way she can retain and she can express herself through words rather than behaviours.

I had to explain very clearly what I thought she needed and why which has meant researching her needs and current thinking around trauma, and standing my ground with professionals.

All of these things take her out of school and me out of work, but that’s part of parenting my child.

In terms of mental health support, that’s fairly simple to organise privately, your DH needs to think about what might help him rather than waiting for someone to suggest something tailored to him, because the system doesn’t work that way.

I can understand your anger, parenting adopted kids can be hard, because you need to advocate for the kind of help you need. I’d second the advice to move your post to the adoption board, there are lots of very experienced adopters who will have suggestions that might help but you will need to make time and space to access supports and therapies. It’s a juggle but there are ways to support your family.

Jellycatspyjamas · 27/03/2023 15:38

OP, would residential care be possible?

I’d be very surprised if the local authority looked at residential care, the threshold is very high indeed, they’re more likely to look at family supports first if disruption was a concern. I’d also be concerned at the impact on the child of yet another move.

drspouse · 27/03/2023 15:45

JanglyBeads · 27/03/2023 15:25

But NAOTP say a lot more than "keep calm" and they also offer 1:1 parenting support (in various ways, some of it free) and support for children too?

I'd be interested to know what else they offer as we couldn't even find out without paying.

OP posts:
drspouse · 27/03/2023 15:47

Residential schooling would lead to appalling outcomes for DS.
He would be devastated to be away from us. He still needs a hug and a bedtime story and a bubble bath and help to wash his hair.

He just about copes with some of the other DCs in his school but he's been bullied and we'd have no way to rescue him from that.

He is getting almost no academic input at his level - he uses a maths app at home and his levels on that are way beyond what they are doing at school.
He'd have access to inappropriate material, games we don't think he should play etc etc on the grounds of "everyone else has them".
At his current school they never allow him to go out for their weekly enrichment (though everyone else gets to) and we took him to the shops, the local small animal house and church this weekend. Last weekend it was cycling and we also go to the local dry ski slope (he goes tubing), he's booked to go and meet some horses next week. He just sits at school and watches YouTube gamers.

He would be sitting in every evening and weekend playing Fortnite in residential because nobody but us will take him anywhere. I don't see how the staff in residential care would be more willing to take him out than the PAs (who we can't get) and the current specialist school staff?

OP posts: