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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why there is no support?

113 replies

drspouse · 27/03/2023 11:59

We have DS who is 11 and has ADHD and a lot of challenging behaviour and DD who is 8. DS is in a specialist school and though he likes a lot of aspects of the school he is still challenging there. He is actually probably better at home -though he is on a hair trigger at both places we find he settles down more easily at home.

We feel like the best ways to help DS are to work out what's an issue for him (but we do not remove everything that's causing him difficulty, partly because we can't - e.g. he slapped me because I turned on the wrong TV for him - I had no idea which one he wanted and I didn't have a problem with him watching the other TV, until he slapped me; and we also know that if he is learning a new skill he will resist as hard as possible but we are not doing everything for him for ever more, though he'd like that) and trying as hard as possible not to react to it.

DH struggles more than me with his behaviour in that he is more likely to be reactive but I can't help myself reacting sometimes and DD shrieks when he does anything to her (ranging from growling at her to attempting to strangle her). DS attacks me more than DH but DH is not exempt either. A few weeks ago we came back from holiday, we asked both DCs to help get bags in the house/sort out what they wanted for dinner/get plates etc. and DS broke a window and a mirror (and quite a few plates).

We called the Social Services emergency number, were told we'd get help and this help consisted of an email detailing the local self-referral for mental health support (we've both maxed out our annual allowance of this) and links to online support groups (for an 11 year old who isn't allowed on the internet on his own and who wouldn't know where to start with this kind of thing anyway, and who says he doesn't want any friends).

Last week he slapped me and pulled my hair when I told him about something we were planning, then threatened to throw a carving knife at me, we called the police who were honestly excellent and said we'd be escalated for additional help. We had a phone call and were told that one person (not two, so as not to overwhelm DS) would come round around tea time as this is a pinch point for us and we really need some advice on how to handle it.

What we got was Early Help were two people (sigh) came round and... you guessed it... gave us links to online groups, hilariously told us about a "group for 0-11 year olds with SEN" which I was slightly puzzled about in January as it meets at 1.30 on a school day so I rang up and they said "It's a typo, it's for 0-5". They are the third group to tell us about this "group". They said they can't give us any direct advice. They also suggested a parenting course!

Last time Early Help came round they suggested sticker charts and that we should "stick some house rules on the fridge". Oh, and a parenting course (we actually did one that was semi-helpful, directed at children with ADHD.)

Both DCs are adopted but when we have asked for help from the Adoption Support Fund it has either been things we cannot access or things we know DS won't participate in (e.g. parenting courses that we must both attend when we have no babysitting, but they won't accept us unless we both attend, or a therapy session on Zoom that would take DS out of school for a day a week and we'd both have to reduce our working hours just to do it).

I am currently seeing a counsellor privately and I try to do things that help me stay calm (mainly exercise/Pilates at the moment but I've also done a lot of mindfulness in the past). I'm doing better than DH at reacting to DS and I think this helps but I'm not perfect and I don't think DH feels able to help himself at the moment. DS knows which buttons to press (I'm going to break your glasses Daddy) and DH responds. I've asked DH not to even discuss what we are doing in front of DS because DS has the idea that Daddy would let him do what he wanted if it wasn't for stupid Mummy, but DH gets wound up too and tends to tell me I won't let him have any ideas (not helpful, DH, not helpful).

We've asked for mental health support for us (I think DH would do something that was "provided for him" but he doesn't have any confidence that a "mindfulness course" would help him or that he'd even be able to do it, and we've asked for direct advice in the home about how to deal with DS. We've also asked for respite. We are waiting for a disability team assessment but last time we asked we were told DS "isn't disabled enough".

How is there NOTHING for us? We are at the point where we cannot keep DD safe, and when DS is bigger then him attacking me will not just be annoying/causing bruises but actively unsafe. We can't even find anything that we can pay for (we are both professionals and we can pay for help in the home/courses/counselling/respite but can't find anything that helps, or any carers who can cope with DS). Being professionals seems to work against us TBH - we are supposed to be free to go to lots of parenting courses during school hours, and not to question what we are told, but if the social workers say "oh you should do this parenting course or go to this group" we are supposed to say "oh yes thank you we are much better now" but instead I look up the parenting course and find that it has no proven outcomes with children of his age with ADHD, or that the group isn't actually for his age, or in fact doesn't exist.

Do they actually want us to put DS in foster care? Is that what they think we should do? Or for a vulnerable 11 year old who needs a hug at bedtime to go to boarding school? Or are they going to wait till it breaks down even further and DD is actually hurt badly and then she will be removed?

Is there actually anybody that the current system helps? Does a parenting course and a sticker chart make a difference to any families who have a child older than a toddler? We aren't even in the worst possible situation - I know there are families with teenagers that are even harder to deal with and have much more power in the household, and children with much less manageable disabilities than our DS who need physical help, who don't sleep etc. etc.

Well done if you've made it to the end! If you have any experience at all of anything that ACTUALLY HELPS I'd love to hear it but if you are also in the same boat please feel free to vent as well.

OP posts:
drspouse · 27/03/2023 19:09

We will ask the school OT about home based support, that's a good call.
The LEA insisted he didn't need OT because he wasn't in the classroom at his last school and wouldn't engage with the NHS OT (who he met 3 times) so I don't hold out any hope of the NHS or the LEA giving us anything.

I would rather DH got therapy than left.

OP posts:
lollipoprainbow · 27/03/2023 19:11

I hear you. I'm at the end of my tether with my ASD daughter sometimes and feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. The school mental health team don't feel she needs the criteria to be seen despite her telling me she wants to die on a daily basis. I had a visit from a very nice lady from early help a couple of weeks ago but haven't heard anything since then

OhcantthInkofaname · 27/03/2023 19:31

I hate to say this but for everyone's protection you are going to have to place him somewhere else. You owe a duty to your DH and DD to protect them above all. If he's placed in a residential school and doesn't get that hug at night he will understand consequences. Ie he will understand that his behavior caused him not to be able to be hugged at night. Right now you have no effective consequences for him. And he knows it.

BlackeyedSusan · 27/03/2023 19:44

Not suggesting you split up split up.

And yeah, he should. But you might get to the point where he is so bloody annoying you do split up. Messily rather than controlled. Or he breaks. Or you do.

And it should not be like this as you should have proper support.

You know something has to change. God help you find the right thing for you all. It sounds proper tough.

Corcory · 27/03/2023 19:45

I've not read the whole thread but we also have a violent DS with a younger DD whole we adopted together. They are now 20 and 18. Both have ADHD, ASD and anxiety. I'm afraid the keep calm suggestion would have been impossible for me if I hadn't been prescribed anti depressants! I tried all sorts of therapies but, although they were nice at the time they never hit the spot like medication does. We've watched what the trigger points are, when they were young one thing we discovered was the work 'no' was a massive trigger with our DS. So I got into the routine of saying something like 'that's an idea' which gave me a chance to suggest something more appropriate/better. Distraction was also our friend. Another trigger is when he wants us to turn down the music/TV as he wanted to go to bed in silence - I know , sounds daft I never had a problem popping on some headphones but DH would argue the point! TVs have been smashed, last Friday night it was a very heavy glass candle holder which smashed and left a hole in the wall. DH refuses all meds. We have taken both of our children's diagnosis further thus discovering the anxiety and the ASD. ASD hasn't given us any more help apart from the fact that there are some groups the children can join giving the other some rest bit. One other thing is that our DS reacted very well to having lots of physical activity and tiring him out gave us all some rest bit.

WiltingFlowerz · 27/03/2023 19:48

If he's placed in a residential school and doesn't get that hug at night he will understand consequences. Ie he will understand that his behavior caused him not to be able to be hugged at night. Right now you have no effective consequences for him. And he knows it.

Tell me you know fuck all about attachment trauma without telling me you know fuck all about attachment trauma.

FloatingBean · 27/03/2023 19:49

LAs often don’t agree willingly, many have to appeal the provision in the EHCP.

@lollipoprainbow have you applied for an EHCP or requested an early review if DD already has one?

HuggingtheHRT · 27/03/2023 19:52

I hate to say it but there seem to be an awful lot of obstacles being put in the way here? find it hard to believe it's humanly impossible arrange for someone a neighbour, friend, relative to babysit for an hour so you can both attend parenting classes together? It appears that's what is clearly needed.

Omg, what an unhelpful response. Clearly this is a very troubled child and I'm sure it's very challenging to find people willing to babysit him. And coping with a high needs child is, in itself, extremely isolating...

I'm sorry Op. it sounds very tough.

lollipoprainbow · 27/03/2023 19:59

@FloatingBean yes I'm in the process now.

lollipoprainbow · 27/03/2023 19:59

OhcantthInkofaname · 27/03/2023 19:31

I hate to say this but for everyone's protection you are going to have to place him somewhere else. You owe a duty to your DH and DD to protect them above all. If he's placed in a residential school and doesn't get that hug at night he will understand consequences. Ie he will understand that his behavior caused him not to be able to be hugged at night. Right now you have no effective consequences for him. And he knows it.

Not a bloody clue

Jellycatspyjamas · 27/03/2023 20:34

If he's placed in a residential school and doesn't get that hug at night he will understand consequences. Ie he will understand that his behavior caused him not to be able to be hugged at night. Right now you have no effective consequences for him. And he knows it.

If he’s placed in a residential school and doesn’t get a hug at night he’ll understand that he’s unlovable, that yet another person has rejected him, that he can’t rely on people to keep him safe.

You’ve clearly no concept of developmental trauma and the impact on children’s cognitive capacity, emotional intelligence, impulse control, concept of consequences, emotional regulation etc etc. Adopted children aren’t there to be picked up and put down again when things are tough. He’s a human child, not a fucking errant dog.

drspouse · 27/03/2023 21:14

Moving swiftly on from cruelty...

Consequences rarely work in ADHD though in common with other children with the condition, praise and rewards do work reasonably well (current rate is one box of doughnuts for a haircut which, as long as you go just after his meds kick in, is very effective).
This means we don't think it's PDA, but demand avoidance is common in ADHD it's not quite the same.

We've "failed" ASD screening at least 3 times so though we could probably get a diagnosis we'd have to lie on the screener and hope he wouldn't interact in the assessment.

I think DH is (typical bloke though I hate to be sexist) sceptical that therapy would work and also thinks if all the things I've done haven't made me "perfect" there isn't any point in trying. I'm working on him.

OP posts:
Gremlins101 · 27/03/2023 21:29

Only here to say I hope things get much much easier for you and your family soon 💐it sounds tough

Spendonsend · 27/03/2023 21:58

My DH went with the total nervous breakdown option. I wouldnt say he was calm in a zen wat but so depressed he stopped reacting to anything at all.

I am sorry to hear things are still tough. I wish I had solutions but I can only agree that there isnt much support/any and services send you in circles or just to websites of generic advice.

drspouse · 27/03/2023 22:11

Oh and @BlackeyedSusan I just bought him some deodorant... Yep he's 11.

OP posts:
BlackeyedSusan · 27/03/2023 22:48

Bless him. You are doing well with hair cuts! Bribery is quite useful. We are currently at the Lynx phase. A lot better than the post football musty whiff...known by parents of teenage boys everywhere

Consequences don't work that well for autism either, sometimes. (Does for one, not the other) Mine could earn back whatever was lost, otherwise there was no point being good and the rampage would continue or the absolute devastation at having made a mistake would continue. (Both autistic)

Quite a lot of overlap between the two conditions.

9 was the worst age here. Things have improved since.

drspouse · 27/03/2023 22:59

I got him a nice natural deodorant stick because he wouldn't have stood for a smelly one and he already likes stick sun cream etc. and now I think he's going to use the whole thing up (and it's ££) in the first week!

OP posts:
Millie2008 · 28/03/2023 00:03

Have you read "the explosive child" by Dr Ross Greene? I'm starting to use the approach and am feeling really hopeful...

RobertaFirmino · 28/03/2023 01:00

What if you called their bluff? Rang SS and told them you can't cope anymore and you need to relinquish DS? Something tells me that the support you need would magically appear. I don't mean this disrespectfully btw, it just seems obvious that once DC are placed with adoptive parents or kinship carers, SS basically wash their hands of any further support, esp. for caregivers.

McGonagallshatandglasses · 28/03/2023 04:15

I hear you say that you could bluff your way to an ASD diagnosis, but don't think it's a factor.

But if they won't properly support him with only the adhd diagnosis and he doesn't have either a diagnosis of an attachment disorder or ptsd that might be what you need to do.

Adhd when not compounded by other issues does not look like the situation you are describing.

I've been near breaking point too, and my children aren't adopted. They are mine. And I attachment-parented. And still we've needed help.

I would definitely tell any authorities that the adoption is at risk of breaking down without help. Your need for regular respite so you can spend time with your younger child is palpable.

Autienotnautie · 28/03/2023 05:40

OriginalUsername2 · 27/03/2023 12:26

What would support actually look like to you?

Let me guess . Training to be a counsellor? It's not the op's job to plan a support system for disabled children in the uk. Op has asked for help. There is no help.

drspouse · 28/03/2023 13:14

Millie2008 · 28/03/2023 00:03

Have you read "the explosive child" by Dr Ross Greene? I'm starting to use the approach and am feeling really hopeful...

I have been looking at this method for a while - I wouldn't say I followed it faithfully. However I see the same problems as with the Yvonne Newbold approach, with children allowed to spend all day all weekend in bed with no clothes on, gaming, because the parents don't want to put demands on them.
We have used the questioning approach reasonably successfully to help DS to tell us what exactly is the problem with something he can talk calmly about (e.g. to do swimming 1:1 he asked if we could be there too, and we started off being on the side of the pool and gradually withdrew).
I also know that research isn't on the side of this approach (the low demand approach) - for ADHD, doing everything for your child long term doesn't help (it's called parental accommodation) and on a personal level, I just can't cope with doing everything DS would like us to do for him.

To take just a small example, he's asked for a hot water bottle as has DD for most nights recently. DD quickly moved to filling her own but DS was insisting forcefully that he couldn't do it. When I said I would show him how he got cross (and this is one of Dr Greene's "can't do it not won't" indicators that you are supposed to listen to) but now a couple of weeks on after some coaching he's doing his own. He also recently decided he wants us to dress him but after a couple of rounds of "we'll get out quicker if we do" we decided he'd been having us for a pair of mugs, he got very cross but we just walked off and he now occasionally says "I'm not going to school, you'll have to dress me" but has given up on thinking we will.

OP posts:
OriginalUsername2 · 28/03/2023 13:28

Autienotnautie · 28/03/2023 05:40

Let me guess . Training to be a counsellor? It's not the op's job to plan a support system for disabled children in the uk. Op has asked for help. There is no help.

Huge leap there!?

It was a genuine question. What does she want that she’s not getting?

Tietheapron · 28/03/2023 13:29

She’s answered that very clearly …

cansu · 28/03/2023 20:01
  1. What makes you think there is a practitioner or professional out there that can come to your house and teach you how to deal with your ds? I have dealt with behaviourists, psychologists, psychiatrists, OTs, SALTs and mental health workers. None have had any better ideas really than what I could find from googling and reading etc.
  2. Respite should be provided. Get a social worker. Write to Children and Young People's services and request it. I did this with ds. He eventually got some. You need it.
  3. Consider a school with weekly boarding. It will give you the break you need and will allow you a family life with your dd. It could also be positive for ds if you find the right place. No it isn't what you want, but it might be what you all need.

At some point, you have to look at the reality of your situation.
You have a child with complex needs and challenging behaviour. You have tried everything and nothing really helps enough for you. He is aggressive towards you. He damages things. He is hard work. I get it. I was in a similar situation. Something had to give. In many cases there is little that works. You do have to accept, muddle on and take the least worst option at the time. This is probably where Yvonne Newbold is coming from.