To think today’s article about Auriol Grey paint a very different picture

[HibiscusBlues]

I was sad to see articles today about the woman jailed for the death of a cyclist. At the time of the offence she was living in a home for the disabled. If this is the case my experience is places like that aren’t easily available.
Shes partially blind, has balance problems and cognitive difficulties after a birth injury to the brain. She’s had related brain surgery.
If this is the case, as her family’s appeal stated, then there does seem a disconnect with the judge saying no difficulties that impacted her actions. Accessing supported living yet being deemed able-bodied and cognitively normal by a court.
Obviously the incident was horrendous for the Ward family, and the cyclist need not deserve to die. It’s a sad case. However the handling of the case is starting to sound uncomfortable. What have others thought of the articles today?

Because this is the one currently in the news, obviously. It;s not goady, it's topical.

I guess it will appear goady to some who view it like that. But it would be hard to have a discussion ever if every example had to be dismissed if there was a disagreement over it.

The justice system isn’t just an extension of our own personal morals. For example I have chosen not to abort for personal reasons and my own beliefs, I wouldn’t put my own personal choice though as a legal restriction for other women. I’m highly supportive of the legal right to abortion in fact, despite the choices I’ve made as an individual. Similarly in this case, you can dislike the individual BUT still question the application of the law and discuss it on a wider front . It’s a separate matter, and I think half these types of problems start when we refuse to talk about justice or the legal system separately from our own moral judgements or emotions.

Good point I didn’t mention. It’s common to discuss the front page news.

The justice system seems to be working to full extent on one case. Two trials and then an Appeal

I can’t say what the Appeal will find but I feel confident justice will have been thoroughly examined

If it formed part of the final judgment and was taken into account in anyway then it’s relevant for an appeal.

On a personal level I’d consider it irrelevant, the law is that people can cycle on the pavement if they are unable to safely use the road. The police have guidance on this. I’m also personally very tolerant of pavement cycling.

If it reaches the court of appeal I think it’s a good thing personally, and yes it would mean the case had been examined well if it does

given AG's condition, by the time the appeal has taken place, she might have got used to the prison routine and would not prefer to be otherwise. Then it comes a question of whether she should be freed and findingchallenges adapting to life again outside prison. Perhaps she would be better where she is now.

and yet the demonstrable endangerment in this case (to the point of death) was to the cyclist.

I’d say everyone is endangered by poorly maintained and inadequate infrastructure. Even the poor car driver has lost her marriage and had an awful experience.

There is about 5 minutes footage of the police interviews posted online if you Google it. As I understand it her brother in law is saying that as a vulnerable person she should have had an appropriate adult present at interview. The Judge relied on that evidence in his judgement and he decided that the path was a shared path when that hadn't been clear to the police or the council.

In watching that interview it seemed obvious that she hadn't got an appropriate adult present. She sounds as though she doesn't fully understand what's going on. She's asked why she left the scene of the incident instead of staying and she says she didn't know she had to. Yet it transpires that she was told to leave as the Judge acknowledges. So why did she not say she was told to leave. The Judge says he's based his judgement on the interviews as she didn't give evidence in court on her behalf.

So is she capable of giving evidence? Is the brother in law correct that she should have had an appropriate adult present? If he is then should the prosecution have shown those interview tapes as evidence?
Nothing will bring Mrs Ward back or prevent Mrs Money from the effects of the trauma she's suffered as the driver of tge vehicle. But I have reservations about the interview techniques and it's CPS who're responsible for putting the interview in as evidence.

It is certainly not the law that you can cycle on the pavement whatever view the police take of it.

Well, appropriate action could be taken then, except the cyclist is dead.

That isn't the case btw.

It's always illegal, the idea that you're "allowed" to comes from a common misunderstanding of the guidance on issuing fines. It is never legal to ride on a dedicated pavement, regardless of age regardless of ability or the alternatives being very dangerous. Your legal options are using roads, cycle lanes, shared spaces, or getting off and pushing it.

The guidance on issuing fines says that fines are to be reserved for people who are causing a problem, either through repeat offending or through dangerous pavement riding and that they are generally not to be levied against people using the pavement carefully to avoid danger. They will still tell you to get off

She's where she belongs. She ruined 2 lives and 2 families.

Can you explain that?

The victim's family. And the driver and her family. I know the driver personally and my family know the victim's family. So yes I stand by what I say.

And so you should. She not only cost one woman her life but she robbed a family of a wife and mother and destroyed another marriage. If anything the sentence is too lenient and I have no sympathy with her whatsoever.

I guess any appeal will determine whether she had sufficient mental competence to understand the consequences of her actions. If she did then she is guilty of manslaughter, if not then she needs to be put into the care of an appropriate organisation so that she is not a danger to those around her as she did still cause the death of an innocent person.

Is that you don't understand that she is severely cognitively impaired, or that you don't care?

Have you no human compassion at all? We do not treat everyone the same as they are not responsible at the same level. If an 8 year old had been the one who did it would you throw them in jail too?

I will never understand this base, revenge seeking, nasty mentality.

I agree completely. It's lovely you've said this xx

You think she's severely impaired, but the people with all the relevant information and experience couldn't convince her trial of that

Well let's hope your family isn't ripped apart by a woman who couldn't control her temper @coldmarchmorn

It is not at all lovely, its absolutely hideous.

So do I. But if it was, I wouldn't turn into a monster out for blood.

Have you no human compassion at all?

Yes, lots of it. Reserved for David Ward who’s grieving his wife of decades, their children and grandchildren and the driver whose mental health has been destroyed, whose marriage has been ruined and whose kids have had their security taken away.