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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To try and give an Ofsted analogy, to help people understand better

195 replies

Nimbostratus100 · 24/03/2023 19:03

Imagine you run a fleet of taxis in a city called Ofstopolis.

In Ofstopolis, the rules are that MOTs are carried out by a group of Ofstopolis inspectors, without warning, on a random basis, and your taxi firm will get a grade, based on these random MOTs, which will be:

Green - ( you can carry on trading)

Amber - ( you need to make changes immediately to carry on trading)
or Red ( you lose your job and your livelihood and are banned from driving a taxi/ owning a business indefinitely)

You were last inspected 2 years ago, and got graded Green, but you are now approaching that time frame where you know that the Ofstopolis inspectors are going to descend again at some point, and MOT all your taxis.

You keep abreast with all current guidance on how to pass an MOT inspection.

Over the next 5 years, you do not get an MOT inspection, but following the guidance in order to be ready for the MOTs, you do the following:

Paint all the cars red as Ofstopolis inspectors are saying this is the safest way for children to notice cars and not get run over

Paint all the cars green, as another but of research a few months later now says red cars have more accidents

Move all the steering wheels to the left hand drive in preparation for a change of side of road you drive on. Then move them back as that plan is abandoned.

Make sure all drivers have photo ID with their name on, showing at all times

Make sure no driver has their surname showing, as this is now considered a data breach

Make sure every driver is trained never to say anyone else's name

Make sure every driver has the latest insurance documents to hand in their car.

Make sure every driver stops carrying around insurance documents, and instead copies the relevant details into a notebook kept securely in a locked glove compartment

Change every driver to a different insurance company which is currently in favour

change all the tyres to blue tyres forgotten why, but Ofstopolis inspectors are currently insisting on this

Change all tyres to green tyres...err...

Change specification of lock on glove compartment...

make sure all drivers are trained in mindfulness

Make sure all drivers carry proof they are trained in mindfulness

Make sure all drivers are change the proof they are carrying, that they are trained in mindfulness, to a certificate exactly 154 mm square, no more, no less, change the size of all glove compartments to fit this exact certificate, take previous lock off glove compartment and fix it to a strong box in the boot to keep the (recently changed again) insurance documents in there, add a lock of a different specification to the glove box to keep the mindfulness certificate in, change the tyres to yellow, and the windscreen wipers to pink

And a thousand thousand other details of procedure, or whims based on highly suspect research, or politically motivated directives

NONE OF WHICH HAVE ANY BEARING AT ALL ON DRIVING YOUR CUSTOMERS

ALL OF WHICH IMPEDES YOU IN YOUR DAILY TASK OF DRIVING CUSTOMERS

Finally the day arrives and the Ofstopolis inspector descend.

YOu are bumped down from green to red, because a driver is found to have a mindfulness certificate which Is the correct size, and IS kept in the correct size glovebox, and DOES have the correct specification of lock on it.. BUT

he had his surname on it, which is a safeguarding breach, as surnames are not allowed - and he had mistakenly thought that the mindfulness certificates were supposed to have surnames on, to prove who had been trained, so this is a management failure, as the correct procedure had not been explained to the driver, and noone had checked it was being followed.

(And my most recent experience of ofsted, a few months ago, I was reprimanded because a student handed in an exercise book with their surname one)

And I hope this explains why teachers feel ofsted has a hugely negative effect on education

OP posts:
AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman · 26/03/2023 21:25

Dacadactyl · 26/03/2023 20:46

@AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman thanks for answering. According to my DD the school are good at supporting children with SEN. Those who have been excluded have been so because they brought drugs to school, apparently. There are very few instances where children are permanently excluded. The school does however use fixed term exclusions, for perhaps fighting or something of that nature.

Ok, perhaps this is an instance where SEN is not particularly a driving factor in whats going on with behaviour.

It does seem a bit confusing if there are very few permanent exclusions but too many for Ofsted.

My personal experience has all been around SEN. Once a HT pleaded not to offer my DC a place because ofsted were due and apparently merely the presence of DC would have negatively affected their result. (My DC only has behavioural issues that affect my DC- self soothing behaviours that leave scars for example, shutting down if overstimulated, not flinging of chairs in utter meltdown which I appreciate is challenging to manage- my DC saves that stuff for home)

Dacadactyl · 26/03/2023 21:36

@AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman I'm not sure whether OFSTED dislike fixed term exclusions too tbh, but they are more frequent at the school. I hope your child has found the right school for them and that they are happy there.

AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman · 26/03/2023 21:40

Thanks 😊

pettysquabbles · 26/03/2023 21:54

Nimbostratus100 · 24/03/2023 19:27

For me the worst thing ofsted imposed was brain gym. It was such complete rubbish, and based on a total misunderstanding of basic anatomy, and yet we all had to sit in endless training sessions listen to total idiots try and tell us that you can reach into your cartoid arteries by sticking your finger in your chest and wiggling it, and the children should sit with their ankles crossed to spell better.

It was clearly total bunkham at the time, and has been proven to be so since- so why were some ofsted teams telling schools they expected to see teachers trained in this and using it? Were they really so taken in that they thought this pile of woo had any scientific basis? Is so, how did we get to the point where people so ignorant think they are able to make these judgements, and are in a position to impose their ignorance on others? If not . then just WTF?

Brain gym lodged itself into schools for years, every single penny or second spent on it was time and resources taken away from education, and for what?

Please show me the document that states Ofsted imposed Brain gym? They don;t impose any teaching style or intervention and actually advise against gimmicky practice. It sound like an SLT issue and not an Ofsted one.

LolaSmiles · 27/03/2023 18:54

Please show me the document that states Ofsted imposed Brain gym? They don;t impose any teaching style or intervention and actually advise against gimmicky practice. It sound like an SLT issue and not an Ofsted one.
It was never written in an Ofsted framework that mini plenaries should be used liberally, or that lessons should follow a 5 or 7 part structure, but there was a time where inspectors were looking for that, and a lot of consultants linked to Ofsted in various ways were advising schools that's what Ofsted wanted.

What you're missing is that often what Ofsted actually comment on isn't what's in their published framework. That's one of the reasons the current system isn't fit for purpose.

I can't remember if it was this thread or another recent one about Ofsted, but a poster said that theu were deep dived and the Ofsted inspector criticised them for not covering the "great speeches". Nowhere in the framework does it say an inspector's personal favourite topics should dictate the inspection.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 27/03/2023 19:13

AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman · 26/03/2023 20:29

Hm, actually I wonder if a school that excludes ‘too much’ for ofsted is just being too clumsy about their discrimination; not playing the game well enough. Not ‘succeeding’ well enough at putting off potential families, or at causing them to withdraw before they’ve been officially excluded. Now that’s cynical.

You mean they've been foolish enough to employ somebody in Admissions and have a Governing Body that actually respects and follows the Law? So somewhere around 20-odd people actually committed to doing things as they should?

it's clearly not a fucking Harris, then

AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman · 27/03/2023 19:16

Harris? I don’t t follow

NeverDropYourMooncup · 27/03/2023 19:22

AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman · 27/03/2023 19:16

Harris? I don’t t follow

Some places don't exactly follow the Admissions code and demand details of SEND/attainment/absence before offering an in year place.

AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman · 27/03/2023 20:24

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes there are a lot of unsound practices that come to light if your DC have additional needs. Ofsted is no help with any of that!

BellaBella38 · 27/03/2023 23:25

BellaBella38 · 24/03/2023 19:36

Yup spot on. Ofsted are now two years overdue at my husband's school. I've watched as his every Sunday/Monday/Tuesday/Wednesdays are stress ridden and sleep disturbed. If they haven't called by Wednesday afternoon they're not coming this week and he gets a reprieve for a few days before the cycle starts again. Every week. He now takes medication to control his blood pressure, no personal or family cardiac history, not overweight, under 50, just so very very stressed. I don't know if he's a 'good' teacher, I'm a nurse that's out of my area of expertise. What I do know is that past students and their families have written to him accrediting their GCSE successes with the help he gave them with their maths at Primary school. I don't think I can even remember my Primary school teachers' names! How he still cares and keeps going I don't know, but he does.

Yup speak of the devils and lo they shall appear. And with less than 24 hrs to prepare you're no longer teaching English tomorrow but instead History... And go! 🤬

Market1 · 01/08/2023 06:52

BellaBella38 · 27/03/2023 23:25

Yup speak of the devils and lo they shall appear. And with less than 24 hrs to prepare you're no longer teaching English tomorrow but instead History... And go! 🤬

How did it go @BellaBella38 ?

Valeriekat · 01/08/2023 07:33

The OFSTED inspector who criticized the Science teacher for following CLEAPSS guidelines and having the children wear safety glasses.

onefinemess · 01/08/2023 07:37

Nimbostratus100 · 24/03/2023 19:03

Imagine you run a fleet of taxis in a city called Ofstopolis.

In Ofstopolis, the rules are that MOTs are carried out by a group of Ofstopolis inspectors, without warning, on a random basis, and your taxi firm will get a grade, based on these random MOTs, which will be:

Green - ( you can carry on trading)

Amber - ( you need to make changes immediately to carry on trading)
or Red ( you lose your job and your livelihood and are banned from driving a taxi/ owning a business indefinitely)

You were last inspected 2 years ago, and got graded Green, but you are now approaching that time frame where you know that the Ofstopolis inspectors are going to descend again at some point, and MOT all your taxis.

You keep abreast with all current guidance on how to pass an MOT inspection.

Over the next 5 years, you do not get an MOT inspection, but following the guidance in order to be ready for the MOTs, you do the following:

Paint all the cars red as Ofstopolis inspectors are saying this is the safest way for children to notice cars and not get run over

Paint all the cars green, as another but of research a few months later now says red cars have more accidents

Move all the steering wheels to the left hand drive in preparation for a change of side of road you drive on. Then move them back as that plan is abandoned.

Make sure all drivers have photo ID with their name on, showing at all times

Make sure no driver has their surname showing, as this is now considered a data breach

Make sure every driver is trained never to say anyone else's name

Make sure every driver has the latest insurance documents to hand in their car.

Make sure every driver stops carrying around insurance documents, and instead copies the relevant details into a notebook kept securely in a locked glove compartment

Change every driver to a different insurance company which is currently in favour

change all the tyres to blue tyres forgotten why, but Ofstopolis inspectors are currently insisting on this

Change all tyres to green tyres...err...

Change specification of lock on glove compartment...

make sure all drivers are trained in mindfulness

Make sure all drivers carry proof they are trained in mindfulness

Make sure all drivers are change the proof they are carrying, that they are trained in mindfulness, to a certificate exactly 154 mm square, no more, no less, change the size of all glove compartments to fit this exact certificate, take previous lock off glove compartment and fix it to a strong box in the boot to keep the (recently changed again) insurance documents in there, add a lock of a different specification to the glove box to keep the mindfulness certificate in, change the tyres to yellow, and the windscreen wipers to pink

And a thousand thousand other details of procedure, or whims based on highly suspect research, or politically motivated directives

NONE OF WHICH HAVE ANY BEARING AT ALL ON DRIVING YOUR CUSTOMERS

ALL OF WHICH IMPEDES YOU IN YOUR DAILY TASK OF DRIVING CUSTOMERS

Finally the day arrives and the Ofstopolis inspector descend.

YOu are bumped down from green to red, because a driver is found to have a mindfulness certificate which Is the correct size, and IS kept in the correct size glovebox, and DOES have the correct specification of lock on it.. BUT

he had his surname on it, which is a safeguarding breach, as surnames are not allowed - and he had mistakenly thought that the mindfulness certificates were supposed to have surnames on, to prove who had been trained, so this is a management failure, as the correct procedure had not been explained to the driver, and noone had checked it was being followed.

(And my most recent experience of ofsted, a few months ago, I was reprimanded because a student handed in an exercise book with their surname one)

And I hope this explains why teachers feel ofsted has a hugely negative effect on education

So whay aren't teachers striking over these inspections?

You strike over pay.

This seems like more of a reason.

FrippEnos · 01/08/2023 08:04

Nimbostratus100

I liked your analogy. But you have missed that you are no longer allowed to use a range of taxis that suit the different needs of your passengers.
You must use a standard push bike and take twice as many passengers whilst still keeping them safe but you are not allowed to let them actually ride on the bike as that would be far to dangerous.

LolaSmiles · 01/08/2023 08:12

So whay aren't teachers striking over these inspections?

You strike over pay.

This seems like more of a reason.

Strike action was taken on pay and conditions.

Workload, which these sorts of inspections contribute unnecessary levels of work, is part of that.

Plus, there's been real terms pay cuts for over a decade.

Teacher contracts are usually 32 hours a week. Many do 50-60 hours.

Why shouldn't any worker be able to stand up for appropriate pay and conditions?

onefinemess · 01/08/2023 08:18

LolaSmiles · 01/08/2023 08:12

So whay aren't teachers striking over these inspections?

You strike over pay.

This seems like more of a reason.

Strike action was taken on pay and conditions.

Workload, which these sorts of inspections contribute unnecessary levels of work, is part of that.

Plus, there's been real terms pay cuts for over a decade.

Teacher contracts are usually 32 hours a week. Many do 50-60 hours.

Why shouldn't any worker be able to stand up for appropriate pay and conditions?

Because the whole point of the thread was to illustrated how unnecessary, disruptive and stressful these inspections are.

But from what you've just said, pay is more important so teachers are striking over that. Therefore those inspections don't matter and wouldn't be considered disruptive, as long as the pay was better?

ohfook · 01/08/2023 08:28

DavesSpareDeckChair · 24/03/2023 20:22

Shock I knew Brain Gym was the "in" thing a few years ago, but I had no idea it was required by Ofsted!

This is an interesting point. Technically ofsted inspectors aren't supposed to have preference over different learning styles/strategies. If I'd read the brain gym comment a few years ago I'd have said that comment is nonsense because they can't do that.

However having had a recent ofsted inspection where they clearly didn't approve of a method we were using and asked a number of times for things we'd been assured inspectors no longer ask for and if I'm being honest demonstrating knowledge of best practice in my area that is at least ten years out of date, then yes I can believe inspectors demanded to see evidence on it. I'm not sure that they are kept up to date with evidence based developments in education.

RWI is a perfect example of this. There is no evidence at all of its effectiveness and there is some data to suggest that by the end of y6 it might be slightly less effective than other methods, yet it's hailed as this gold standard in phonics teaching. I don't know how she's done it, but Ruth Miskin has pulled an absolute blinder she must be loaded.

Lastly it's pretty clear to me that ofsted were brought in decades ago to raise standards in education. The fact that there are still so many failing schools suggests that they have not done their job correctly and their current approach is not working.

Sherrystrull · 01/08/2023 08:29

@onefinemess

That's quite a lot of assumptions you've made about @LolaSmiles' post.

They didn't say pay is more important, they said workers should be able to stand up for their pay and conditions. They didn't say inspections don't matter and aren't disruptive.

If I was allowed to strike over ofsted inspections I would, but it isn't the only massive problem in education these days.

ohfook · 01/08/2023 08:32

Also the point made about striking over ofsted. Most teachers agree that there needs to be some form of effective monitoring. They don't think they should be exempt. Just that in its current form it's not working.

LolaSmiles · 01/08/2023 09:53

Because the whole point of the thread was to illustrated how unnecessary, disruptive and stressful these inspections are.

But from what you've just said, pay is more important so teachers are striking over that. Therefore those inspections don't matter and wouldn't be considered disruptive, as long as the pay was better?

You're making a lot of leaps there!
I haven't said that.

The current inspection regime contributes to the workload issues that teachers were balloted over.

Pay AND conditions matter.

Too many people seem to take the (I suspect deliberately) over-simplistic approach of "you're striking about pay so either none of the wider issues can be that bad/you'd accept they aren't that big as long as you get more money". I've long come to the conclusion that people deliberately ignore the conditions part of the dispute because that directly links to many of the issues teachers and school leaders raise.

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