To ask if you believe in an afterlife?

[DisneyDisney]

I don’t know if I do? I want to, I lost my dad (he was young relatively speaking) and never ever seeing him again is a painful thought, we only had 30 years (we never have enough time though so we) but I don’t know if i actually believe in one, specifically in the theistic sense.

do you believe in one ? What do you believe?

But why would the rules of natural science run in line with the supernatural? They’re two different things.

The idea of a God or Gods is not the same as believing in Santa - surely you can seen that! You cave complex belief systems, personal experiences of billions of people. Santa is a largely commercialised concept.

You’re not providing any scientific analysis, you just keep trotting out your “it’s bollocks” mantra. It’s not scientific, it’s not even effective debate based on logic

@ohyouknowwhatshername I hear what you are saying but no I am not terrified and I'll tell you why!

Throughout the Bible Our Lord tells us not to be afraid. We are all the children of God and He wants the best for us. God's mercy has no limits if those that seek His mercy do so in contrition and with a sincere heart.

"Think of what is above, not what is on Earth"
(COLOSSIANS 3:2)

You were created to live in heaven for all of eternity. This life is temporary; instead of being fearful of hell and turning away from the church and your faith in God, you could take this as an opportunity to trust God! Don't waste it!

"Have no anxiety at all, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, make your requests known to God. Then the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus."
(PHILIPPIANS 4:6-7).

Try not to worry, or be fearful. Go speak to a trusted Priest and ask God to help you with your doubts, worries or problems. Doing so will give you great peace!

I am convinced that there is something after life. You know how a room feels different if there is another person in it, rather than if you are alone. When you go into a room holding the body of someone who has just died, sometimes there is a person in that room with you, and sometimes there is not. There is something palpable that leaves quickly, but not immediately, and after a variable time. And if the spirit/soul can still be there shortly after death, what else may be possible?

It's you who isn't using logical argument.

Complex belief systems aren't more correct because they're complex. Popular belief systems aren't more correct because they are popular. These are non-arguments. They carry no weight.

Both God and Santa are supernatural. That's the point. The existence of either is as provable or disprovable as the other. You would have no problem with thinking I was literally nuts if I insisted on saying I believed in Santa on the bad evidence that exists for that belief. There is no better evidence for God. There is only faith and belief. It's as logical to say God doesn't exist as to say Santa doesn't exist.

This is me too.

Not pearly gates but there have been too many weird happenings in my life to be a complete coincidence. There is definitely something and a lot we will never understand.

I think all religion is about control.

Books written by men, rules created by men, a way of life decided by rich men to keep the general public under control, funding the vast wealth of the church system. The biggest property and land owners.

Thank goodness more people are realising this. Sone aspects of religion can be toxic.

I respect people's personal views, buy as a whole I think it's just made up rubbish. Out of date and out of touch, and as history has shown us, dangerous.

I admit I wonder how anyone can believe it any of it, when science has the answers.

When I look about me, and think about existence, my actual being, the sky, nature....its all a miracle.
I have had signs specific from those who have died.
If I can believe in this miracle I'm living, it seems ridiculous to think that I am clever enough to categorically say there aren't things beyond my understanding.
If all this can exist with proof before my eyes I don't find it at all difficult to think its just as likely there is more.
If you have lost a child or grieved an untimely or tragic death, you ask a lot of the Universe and are maybe open to a lot more answers.
I know my loved ones souls are there.
Where? - I don't know.

You've left out the third angle - the behaviour of Jesus' followers after his death. People do not take such risks with their own lives and those of their loved ones for something they've 'imagined'.

Except that.... faith of all kinds has survived for centuries, and this simply doesn't happen unless personal experience gives people a reason to continue to believe.

An up-to-date example: on Question Time recently, the host pointed out that the majority of the audience had voted Tory. She then asked how many people believed that Johnson was telling the truth (re party gate). Hardly anyone. The scales had fallen from their eyes in a very short period. Yet this hasn't happened with (for instance) Christianity over thousands of years. While churchgoing in this country has fallen, in other countries the faith continues to grow.

@Deeplydevoted thank you for taking the time to reply to me, much appreciated.

Why do you assume he didn’t create the afterlife and doesn’t want to prove it to me?

To answer a question put to me many posts ago, I can't give specific details of things I've seen due to confidentiality, but they include...
a child who was dying starting to 'see' (and describe perfectly) the brother who had pre-deceased him and about whom he knew nothing (not even his existence) as he drifted in and out of consciousness;
a women who saw a particular saint at the point of death, who was the composer of her favourite hymn (but neither she nor the family knew this - it was pretty obscure and I knew it only because of having studied theology);
a close friend who, in her final hours, described heaven and meeting people who had pre-deceased her who were known only to me;
my father-in-law appearing (in bodily form) every time we moved house, as if to check up on us (he and I were not close at all, so I didn't conjure him up as a grief reaction).

Lots and lots of examples too numerous to mention here. (I now expect lots of naysayers, because of course anyone can make counter-arguments, but I was there, and they were not 🙂.)

Yes they do.

Perhaps a complete lack of understanding of the pro-afterlife perspective says more about you rather than whether or not it is actually true. Lack of connection to the divine source, low reserves of soul energy. Hardened cynicism is not a positive thing.

Lol- I’m not assuming anything- I’m open to all possibilities. So going back to the question you tried to avoid by reflecting back, why do you assume that a god would be needed to create an afterlife and that he should feel the need to prove it to you?

There is always a natural explanation for the personal experiences that people put down to supernatural religious experience. If I claim that Adolf Hitler speaks to me in my head at night, you'd think I was a liar or mad or ill, at the very least, mistaken. If I claim Jesus does, you believe me. But there's no difference in the claim.

Many people believe in yogic flying - that they literally can fly. It's bollocks. You think it's bollocks. In fact, you know it's bollocks.

Religious claims deserve no more respect than any other crazy claim, just because they are labelled as religious.

Why do you assume I assume that?

But you’re confusing religion with spirituality- two entirely separate things

I wish I did - it must be a great comfort.

Now and then I do wonder though. Right after my lovely MiL died, too young, I had a very strong sense of her presence in our house, where she’d always been happy (not always the case at home, FiL could be very difficult.). I could almost ‘see’ her sitting on the sofa.

Of course I put it down entirely to my imagination and when my father died only 6 months later I fully expected to ‘sense’ the same.
But there was nothing. Zilch.

Plus, a couple of very down to earth, non-woo family members have had some very strange experiences.

Erm… yes they do? Cults have murdered people, killed themselves, given up their entire lives, shunned their own loved ones etc. For religion people have gone against the very religious texts they purport to follow, murdering people and committing acts of terrorism. People very much do take insane risks for their religious or other beliefs that have been taught to them/they’ve been convinced of.

I mean that’s not me saying that people shouldn’t/can’t be religious. I respect anybody’s right to practice their religious beliefs as long as they do not harm anyone else. However, I think trying to use the behaviour of religious people and the fact that they took risks as ‘proof’ that God is real because nobody would take those risks unless he was real is really flawed logic. It doesn’t make any sense.

Absolutely I do and I've had more hard,factual evidence than you could hear in a day.
without any doubt there is an after life,in fact it's not an after life as such as we came from there to the earth plane to learn.when we leave there,our loved ones are grieving for the loss and when we return they celebrate and come to fetch us and take us home to heal and to look back at our lives and reflect.
there's lots to do.
Anyway,I won't go on,but please,ignore the negatives,and be reassured your dad is healthy,happy,with loved ones and visiting you regularly.when your time comes,your dad will come back for you.If you need help ask,guardian angels can not step in,normally,to help unless you ask,but do that and they will.💐

So the need for proof doesn't apply to you, just to people who disagree with you. Got it.

Lol. Not at all, I just assume that the universe cannot be wholly explained through scientific method, ie some things cannot be proved and you’ll never be able to get beyond belief, proof in line with scientific principles will never be established.

However, those thinking the universe can be explained wholly through scientific observation presumably think everything can be explained through scientific reasoning, ie they think things can be objectively observed and understood. I’m asking for proof of their position within their model of the universe which I think is fair enough. I trying to work with their world view.

My cosmological perspective works on the basis some things are beyond explanation/proof through scientific methodology, therefore I can’t prove anything, nor is that necessary within the framework I use.

@KarmaStar Lovely post - couldn't have put it better myself. :-)