Size discrimination in workplace

[GEC44]

Looking at another current thread on here regarding being weighed in the office, it's made me want to post about my employer.

The role is a uniformed role.

New uniform was recently issued and a memo went out a few weeks beforehand to ask any female members of staff size 18 or above to attend a measuring session in a meeting room, as the uniform supplier doesn't go past size 16 and so anything bigger would need to be specially made.

I found this to be quite humiliating. Fair enough if the supplier doesn't go past a certain size, but the employer could have been a bit more discreet about it rather than getting all the size 18 plus ladies in for a "measuring session".

I've hidden my hair colour and phone case (it's identifiable). What size do I look? Just asking because there's been a few comments that people can tell. I'm being totally nosey like. It's anonymous so I won't be offended...at least I hope not.

@RomeoOscar 18 top, 16 bottom is my guess

But surely it’s discrimination AGAINST anyone who thinks they’re smaller than an 18?

Oh. I wear men's jumpers. I've got really long arms and jumpers for women are always too short in the sleeves. Not that will make a difference really

Not sure how much more discreet they could have been? it was an invite sent to everyone, no one was singled out. They brought the contractor on-site to do it discreetly in a private room at your convenience.

Getting a made to measure uniform for free isn’t discrimination but a privilege. I’m between two sizes and am short, so I always had to go and get my uniform tailored to fit me at my own cost. The trousers and skirts would have to be taken up and in. Shirt sleeves and cleavage adjusted. Etc. As I’m under size 18, I wouldn’t have the privilege of getting a made to measure uniform for free.

As someone else upthread pointed out, we can all see who’s big and who’s small. Pretending that Doris in accounts is average sized when she’s 5’ 2” and weighs 15 st is just stupid.

Well yeah. But size wouldn't have come into the situation at all had they sent out a general email saying they're purchasing new uniforms so all employees need to be measured for them. No size mentioned there at all, is there?

But not all employees need to be measured for them? So that would be a lie?

This reminds me when DD worked in care home & their spare uniform tops were much too big for her: she wasn't skinny in those days, either. They had to order in a special top for her (size 8-10 I suppose).

Anyway, it's good that employer is trying to get right fit. I have had acquaintances tell me they need size M when I need size M or L, so I'm thinking, "But I'm smaller than you..." and then they moaned that the item was too tight when it arrived. I just think people aren't good at getting their sizing right.

Its impossible to tell. You're only showing your mid section. You need to see limbs and head to get perspective on body size.

How would you know that Doris weighs 15 stone? Can you tell just by looking at her?

You might not know that Doris is precisely 5ft2 and 15 stone but you won't be assuming she's tall and skinny. People have eyes

YABU - your company isn't putting a massive stage in the middle of the canteen and forcing anyone over a size 10 to be publicly weighed, measured and judged in front of the entire staff, they're simply asking those who need a larger uniform to go to a specific room to be measured on a specific day so they can have an appropriate uniform created for them.

Size is something you can't hide, you may be self conscious about it but you can't pretend you're a size 8 when you're a size 18 or even a 28, everyone can see you're a larger person and so are more likely going to need a custom uniform. They might even have the room set up for privacy - screens or partitions set up - so that you're not actually being measured in front of anyone and nobody has to know your exact measurements.

As someone who had bariatric surgery 9 months ago to take myself from a size 28/30 down to my current size 16, I would have loved to have had my work uniforms tailored to fit me properly when I was at my heaviest as all of my uniform was ill fitting "unisex" (or based on a male frame so I had to size up even more to account for boobs and hips) uniform shirts and trousers and was 100 times more self conscious than in any other item of clothing. As a 16 with lots of wobbly bits due to loose skin etc even with the uniforms going up to a 16 I'd probably go along to the fitting session so that I could be measured up to ensure I would fit in the 16 uniform (especially if there was nothing in stock to try on) as I would rather have a custom fit size 18 that required me to be measured than squeeze into an ill fitting 16 that didn't but was uncomfortable as it fitted so badly.

The way we got our uniform was as part of a group induction - a group of about 12-15 of us were sat round the table just before lunch on our first day as official employees when the training manager handed a piece of paper to the first person and said "Find your name in the list and then write down your clothing size - top and bottom - next to it and I'll check if we have your sizes in our store room, also our sizes tend to run small so I'd always suggest to size up if you're not sure". We not only had to write down our clothing size on a piece of paper that was passed round a room full of strangers we were going to be working with, but we also had to put down a size larger than we were! As a very plus sized person in a room full of skinny people (nobody was over a women's size 14/men's Large except size 28 me) it was humiliating to have to write down my clothing size and then have the trainer take the sheet back, skim over the page and say "we should have something for almost all of you but melj1213 we are definitely going to have to order stuff for you." If there had been an option where someone had said "Anyone requiring a uniform over a size 16/Large, please wait at the end of this session and we'll have a quick chat before lunch about the options" would have been so much more preferable as anyone in the room could tell I was clearly over a size 16 but it gave me an option to only have to discuss it with one person as opposed to the whole room ... And if anyone else had stayed behind then they would have been in the same boat so hardly like they're going to be judging.

Some employers, such as the police, require minimum BMI standards at joining so perhaps don’t offer larger sizes as standard. It depends on who you work for.

Personally, I’d rather a general email go out than anyone finding a way to personally select me over my size. It’s not like they’re suggesting anything from this, it’s just that they need to adjust the uniform to suit certain sizes. They do the same for smaller bodies too. Sometimes the ‘standard’ uniform just doesn’t cover everyone.

You might not know the exact weight but you can estimate and it's blatantly obvious who is overweight and who is not.

@5128gap - you can see my arms and legs in the picture?

I've only cut off my head and feet.

If you tap the picture it opens up bigger. The thumbnail only shows my mid section.

What size do I look?

Unless you say how tall you are, how can anybody tell?

I don't understand why you needed to be measured at all. Presumably anyone size 16 or under just gave their dress size. Why are the bigger sizes not just being made as standard, but ordered according to need?

Actually I know what you mean. Im quite muscular (with a layer of fat) so pretty heavy. I've also got 'beefy' arms and thighs too. I love a charity shop bargain but even my mum picks up items she thinks I'll like but I don't even try them on as I can see instantly they're too small. 'But I'd get my leg in that arm hole" she declares....good for you Mum but the sleeves are too tight.
Same with glasses. I tell everyone I've got a big head and they just say I havent....so yes, I'm a generous 16 (18 arm) n people seemed surprised.

Tbh I'd take the embarassment for a bespoke uniform...loose arms n little waist.

It isn't a lie, the uniforms won't fit everyone so they need to measure them. Some of the people will fit into standard sizing so they won't need to tailor the clothes to fit them, and some won't. I'm willing to bet the person who sent email out won't be able to judge every single individual that needs to be measured and every single individual who doesn't, certainly not the people who are 16 who may or may not fit into the top end size.

Management were playing it fast and loose anyway to leave it up to the employees to judge their correct size for a supplier with very few sizes on offer, as we know sizing varies hugely from manufacturer to manufacturer, and depending upon cut of clothing. We've used various suppliers for PPE, and we measure for each one, or at least get people to try them on, as they may be a medium with one supplier, small with another, then even a large with the next. And the kit needs to fit, it's a H&S issue if it doesn't.

This is a funny one. I can see why the OP is a bit unhappy about it. It does feel like singling larger women out.

The problem is, if you decided that in order to not single out the larger women by calling all the women in to be measured, that could potentially be seen as discrimination on the grounds of sex, as only women were asked and not men. As it is being a larger size isn’t discrimination, because being a larger size is not a protected characteristic. It’s not discrimination on the grounds of sex, because not all women are needing to be measured, and the only other potential protected characteristic under which it could be discrimination is disability, and I think you’d be hugely reaching with that. If somebody could make a convincing argument that it’s discrimination on the grounds of disability, then it would also be discrimination on the grounds of sex, but like I said, that’s a massive reach nobody with any sense would attempt.

O P. Like I said, I can understand your discomfort at this, but the company have actually acted in the way least likely to be discriminatory due to how the equality act works.

It would make no sense whatsoever for the company to measure everyone. If you have a staff of 100, and 6 women are larger than a size 18, that’s 94 members of staff you’re measuring for no reason. That would take time and cost money, and nobody with any sense waste time and money to placate the feelings of 6 people who wouldn’t be being discriminated against anyway.

actually, take that Back. There are instances of time and money wastage to placate the feelings of those who aren’t being discriminated against anyway, but those whose feelings are being placated in such cases are never female, although they would identify as such.

Why do you want strangers judging you? Surely we've moved on from rating people. The only person's opinion that matters is your own.

They don’t need to measure everyone. Anyone between sizes can simply order one, and if it doesn’t fit order the adjacent size depending on too small or too big. And if someone orders the largest size and it is too small, then they go and get measured. This is an ongoing thing as new employees arrive continuously. This isn’t a once a year thing.

Agree they don’t need to measure everyone. Claiming it is discriminatory is nonsense. I agree with this below (but rally don’t think it’s worth complaining about):

I think it could have perhaps been worded better, such as 'As there are restrictions on sizing, we would like to invite all who may need a different sized uniform to please attend a session with the tailor on X to ensure we get you the correct fit.'