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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Jane and John the manipulative bell end

26 replies

Jibberdy · 22/03/2023 12:35

I’ve upset my best friend and I don’t know what to do.

My friend, call her Jane, and I have been friends for 20 years. We’ve been through marriages and divorces together, and a string of dramas some with hilarious consequences, others not so.

Jane met her new boyfriend , John, about two years ago. He was a childhood sweetheart who’d gone off married two others (not together) and they ‘found each other’ again. I tried to like him but without going into too much outing detail he was already in a relationship with someone else when they got together. He treated his partner pretty poorly to be with Jane and in my opinion is a bit of a player.

Cut to the chase, I think John is a manipulative cheating wanker. He’s playing Jane like all the others - I’ve seen and heard what he’s up to (no hard proof of cheating but certainly manipulation).

Latest drama involves Jane and John moving into the house he shared with his ex, who he’s chucking out!! His house, she rents from him (another story).

I asked Jane if she thinks he’s manipulating her. She went nuts! Of course not, she’s the happiest she’s ever been. He’s a dream boat blah blah. She’s gone silent on me now and I’m worried I’ve damaged everything.

WIBU for commenting on her relationship?

OP posts:
IncompleteSenten · 22/03/2023 12:38

Did she ask you for your opinion? If so, yanbu. If not, yabu.

Veryverycalmnow · 22/03/2023 12:40

Jane is a grown up. If she asks you, be honest, but she is making her own choices

Ishefuckingkiddingme · 22/03/2023 12:40

I think YABU. I get the impression you wouldn’t like him regardless of what he’s like. Phrases like “gone off married two others”…didn’t Jane also go off and marry someone else? Not sure what he’s supposedly done wrong there.

He’s also allowed his ex to live in his house for two years after they’ve broken up. Two years! And she’s not renting it if he lives there, she’s a lodger at best. He’s not chucked her out, he’s given her (long overdue) notice to leave.

No, it’s not good that he cheated on his ex with Jane. No, that’s not good behaviour. But it’s none of your business and you’re massively overreacting. Nothing you’ve said makes him sound at all manipulative.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 22/03/2023 12:44

I think it's always worth saying something if you think a friend is being manipulated or is going into a relationship that could become manipulative or abusive. Because if no-one ever says anything, the person is going to doubt themselves if they start to think there is something wrong. "It must be me because everyone likes him, everyone thinks he's a great guy" etc.

You might lose a friendship but you might also be that lifeline she needs a little way down the road.

Azandme · 22/03/2023 12:45

YABU.

Whilst some of his behaviour isn't great, he isn't alone.

Jane got with someone in a relationship.

Jane is moving into the house too.

You don't like him, so you're judging only his behaviour, and because you don't like him you were only going to find negatives.

But you aren't in a relationship with him, Jane is, and Jane is happy. YWBU to comment, and YABU to think your opinio and feelings matter.

I'm not surprised she's ignoring you, you overstepped.

Original poster
Jibberdy · 22/03/2023 12:46

There’s a lot of detail of his manipulation I haven’t listed. It’s not a drip feed but didn’t think I’d need to detail everything. These are just some examples.

OP posts:
Azandme · 22/03/2023 12:46

Curious - why aren't you judging Jane for getting into a relationship with a man who was already in one?

I would be, because it's a shitty thing to do.

Ishefuckingkiddingme · 22/03/2023 12:47

Jibberdy · 22/03/2023 12:46

There’s a lot of detail of his manipulation I haven’t listed. It’s not a drip feed but didn’t think I’d need to detail everything. These are just some examples.

Except you haven’t given any examples of him being manipulative. You’ve just said he’s manipulative. I’m sure you’ll dripfeed a load now that people have voted YABU though.

Original poster
Jibberdy · 22/03/2023 12:50

I won’t drip feed, my question wasn’t is he manipulative, because I know he is, it was am I being unreasonable to comment.

OP posts:
Chickenly · 22/03/2023 12:54

Jibberdy · 22/03/2023 12:50

I won’t drip feed, my question wasn’t is he manipulative, because I know he is, it was am I being unreasonable to comment.

Then yes, YABU. It’s quite possible that he thinks you’re manipulative.

sonjadog · 22/03/2023 12:55

I would say YABU. Stay out of other people's relationships unless invited to comment.

ColdHandsHotHead · 22/03/2023 12:58

If Jane reacted like that, I'd guess she already knows but is trying to pretend he's not.

lazycats · 22/03/2023 13:02

I'm guessing this isn't going the way the OP thought it would.

Original poster
Jibberdy · 22/03/2023 13:04

lazycats · 22/03/2023 13:02

I'm guessing this isn't going the way the OP thought it would.

That’s a very goady comment to make

OP posts:
ComeTheFckOnBridget · 22/03/2023 13:05

Back down and be supportive as she'll need you when it's time to pick up the pieces.

You can't persuade people who aren't willing to hear it. There will come a time when she is and she'll let you know when that is. In the meantime, keep shtum, don't criticise him and let her get on with it.

sonjadog · 22/03/2023 13:07

Jibberdy · 22/03/2023 12:50

I won’t drip feed, my question wasn’t is he manipulative, because I know he is, it was am I being unreasonable to comment.

Actually you don't know he is. It isn't an irrefutable fact. It is your personal opinion based on your interpretation of the situation out from what you know. So unless directly asked, it is best to keep out of other people's relationships.

LakeTiticaca · 22/03/2023 13:32

I don't think yabu for raising concerns, having been friends for so long. She will find it soon enough if he is the arsehole you suspect he is.

lordloveadog · 22/03/2023 13:36

YANBU to comment.

It's very unlikely to have the outcome you want - as you're discovering. But it might help down the line. And perhaps you just needed to do it anyway, because playing along with a situation you think is bad feels too wrong.

Turnipworkharder · 22/03/2023 13:41

Maybe John just needed the ' right woman ' and Jane is the one.
Say nothing more and let it run its course.

Your choice to be there for Jane when it goes wrong.

CruCru · 22/03/2023 13:47

If she's gone quiet on you then there's not a lot you can do. If you start pestering her to "clear the air" (ugh) then this will annoy her a lot more.

If you are right then Jane is in for quite a lot of drama.

Hang out with some other people in the meantime.

SupplyIsLimited · 22/03/2023 13:52

Few people appreciate it when someone questions whether their partner is a good choice, even if they may privately have their own doubts. Jane doesn't sound very mature, so it's not surprising she was displeased with your unsolicited advice.

Tbh, I'd have little patience with someone who put herself in such an obviously bad relationship. It will almost inevitably go bad, then she'll be coming to you for sympathy. That's not unreasonable, as you're friends, but the problem is that I'd have trouble being sufficiently sympathetic. For me, it would be depend on whether this is her usual behaviour or an uncharacteristic moment of madness. I'd rather let the friendship go now than 'win her back' as a friend, only to endure months or years of biting my tongue and offering sympathy for her stupid choices. Harsh, but true.

Ponoka7 · 22/03/2023 14:28

If you do think that someone is in an abusive/coercive relationship, you've got to tread carefully. Is Jane giving up a tenancy? MN will say MYOB, but of course we are concerned about the decisions our friends are making. I've known people to come out of abusive relationships and ask why people around them said nothing. What you said was too strongly put, you've got to make her think by asking questions, without accusations.

Original poster
Jibberdy · 22/03/2023 15:17

Jane is giving up her independence and her own tenancy in her own name to live in John's house and pay part of his mortgage for him.

I know mumsnet always tells you to MYOB but in real life when a dear friend is potentially putting herself in a vulnerable position I did what I thought was right. It probably wasn't and I'm gutted to have now compromised my friendship with her.

Perception is everything. My perception of him (and I've seen quite a bit of him) is that he's a user and a womaniser. There's stacks of examples. As I say my perception is he's manipulating but that's not my question.

My original question was - was I being unreasonable to voice my opinion of him. I don't understand why she had such a strong reaction to it.

OP posts:
purser25 · 22/03/2023 15:21

I would send her a message saying I will always be here for you.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 22/03/2023 15:30

I suspect Jane knows that this is all a bad idea but is choosing to ignore it. You’ve highlighted what she was trying not to see.

I can see why you said something - I probably would have as well - but you need to keep the door of communication open for when this inevitably goes tits up. She probably thinks you’ll keep on at her about it so maybe a meaaage to her along the lines of “I’ve said my piece now but if you’re happy then I’m happy for you, and I’ll always be here”?