To be appalled by this new system at the GPS

[Comedycook]

Haven't had to go for a while but my DC needs to see a doctor. We used to call up in the morning to get a same day appointment or we could book in advance.. usually a two week wait. Called up this morning and told next available appointment is over a 4 week wait. I asked what happens if you need to someone more urgently. Was told that what happens is a paramedic will phone you and triage you over the phone. They then decide if you need to see a doctor. Wtf. I hate this stupid country.

There are so many conditions whereby you don't need urgent care but you also can't wait a month for help. Also, what about work and school. How do you know if you are going to be granted access to a doctor that day after your phone call from the paramedic? Do you keep your DC off school, do you take the day off work just in case they can see you?

As for myself I have several minor health niggles and in all honesty, it's not worth even trying to see a doctor so I just live with it. However, I obviously wouldn't do that when it comes to my DC.

To be fair, I felt sorry for the receptionist. No wonder so many people just turn up at A&E.

We’ve had this for years. It’s just to weed out those with a cold etc. If you need urgent help the paramedic will give you an appointment.

My gp you have to ring at 8am to get a phone app with the gp. Then the gp if necessary will ask you to come down the surgery straightaway to see you

My son is in the Uk and I’m abroad. I’ve told him millions of times to ring the gp because ‘it’s hard to breath and my right lung has stabbing pains in it but it’s ok, I have another one it’s just that I get very dizzy, but on the plus side my cough that I had for three months is finally gone’

Since I don’t know the protocol, I’m unsure as to what he should do. But from his very poorly described symptoms I’d imagine someone should at least listen to his chest with a stethoscope.

But yea, if he was home he would have had chest x rays the same day. Wouldn’t have to rely on his gibberish slang to understand what he’s on about

My GP has completely stopped appointments for anything that isn't urgent medical care.
You can't book an apt in advance, there are 60 or so appointments released in the morning and it takes 200+ calls at 8.30 to try and get one. If not, tough luck try again tomorrow.

If you do get through and the medically untrained receptionist decides it's non-urgent you don't get to see a GP and that's that.

I have 2 issues I really do need to speak to a GP about, 1 is an on going court case regarding one of my former consultants and I need referrals to a new consultant.

And I have been diagnosed with a very rare autoimmune disease which means all my 7 or so consultants need to be written to by the GP to form continued care, but I can't even see the GP to tell them about this. I know the letter from the hospital won't have been processed by the surgery as I am cc'd on all hospital letters now and I haven't received it yet. Also their filing system takes about 9 months.

"Luckily" I don't work so I can phone (right at school run time) but my husband can't, sometimes they will accept me calling for him, but then they mark him down if he's well enough for work, he can't possibly need a call.

The GPs themselves are great, caring and know their stuff - but they are all partners in this business and its abysmal. If it wasnt a GP practice with desperate people needing service it would be boycotted and shut down within a month.

The pension is a big keeper for many HCP. Although not as 'cushy' as you might imagine. The two I describe have simply decided to 'cut their cloth' and tbh, I think forty years of dealing with death and ill health justifies that. Scrap the pension perks and many would simply work elsewhere.

This. I find it astonishing how many people think the phone triage system works well. It really doesn't. We've been conditioned by years of decline and government gaslighting into thinking this is acceptable it's just not good enough.

I have profound sympathy for people working in the NHS and I know they are doing the best job they can with extremely limited resources so I'm not having a go at them.

But can we please stop telling ourselves it's normal to have to stop working for hours on end or jump through ridiculous hoops to try to get GP appointment. We pay for this through our taxes. The system is on its knees and if people keep telling themselves it's normal there's no incentive for it to change.

I find it astonishing that anybody would prefer traipsing down to the surgery rather than having a two minute call. So many times I've had to waste an hour of my life, not to mention petrol, going to an appointment where a physical exam is unnecessary.

@Thepeopleversuswork
40 years of working is fine. That takes doctors to over 60. They don’t do that long though in many cases. The pensions are golden. Better than virtually anyone else’s.

I agree that poor triage wastes time for busy people who are also working hard for long hours doing important jobs. We put the NHS on a pedestal. Then we dare not criticise it when it doesn’t work. At £160 billion pa it’s eye watering expenditure.

We pay for all training other than the student loan. It is very very expensive. Nurses often don’t get near paying the loan off. The public do need to know money is spent wisely on services. My GPS close many days a year for training. A school has 5 inset days. The doctors are double that. No company earning money could afford to shut down like that in addition to holidays.

But how do you know a physical exam is unnecessary? Also it's not as if the two minute calls are even that quick or convenient. Most of the time when I've had them you wait hours, a GP calls and if you miss the call they make no attempt to get back in touch with you. Most people who work in offices can't justify keeping the phone free for hours on the of chance a doctor will call. At least a physical appointment guarantees you will get the attention of a GP.

Called the Dr last week. Fobbed off over ‘phone. Ended up with DC needing an ambulance ride to the ER. If they’d been seen in person, they would have believed me when I said something was wrong.

My Dr you can book a same day appointment or one in 2 weeks. There are no online consultation except to ask for sick notes or test results etc. They can usually fit you in with a face to face appointment that day if needed, they tell me anything that can't wait 2 weeks can be books as an emergency appointment. When I phoned at 2:30 in the afternoon thinking I had a UTI they got me to bring in a sample asap and the Dr would check it when they had time. By 5 the Dr had phoned and given me a prescription for antibiotics. I was very impressed as was expecting to be sent to 111 or a walk in centre. When I've needed an emergency appointment one always been able to get one.
At one stage it was a nightmare and they said they were going to turn off econsults to fix it. I was sceptical but it seems to have worked.

I think this system is fine. It deals with timewasters and the worried well, giving GPs more time for those who really need it.

My elderly Mum's GP surgery operates like this. I called them this morning for her, got through straight away and a Doctor called her within 10 mins. Saved time for everyone.

So you have one doctor working. They can see 48 patients in a day (6 patients per hour for 8 hours). You know that about 90-100 patients will call for appointments. How would you decide who to give the appointments to?

only way to fix it is to employ more GPs

all this bollocks about what a great system!
Of course it isn't great. If a paramedic was able to diagnose then they would have done the same training as a GP. A four week wait in unacceptable.

We've had a nurse do triage calls on all urgent requests for the last 15 years.

It works really well and we always get an appointment if we need one.

Never heard of that.
I can get an urgent appt that day (may be an out of hours phone call) if. Have to ring at certain times of day - 8am or 2.30pm. I only use this if absolutely necessary.
Routine appts - if not fussy on doctor can sometimes get within a week or two. Can call to book and the ask if f2f or phone required. Same w nurse appts.?
I can also book on the nhs app but there’s less choice of slot.

No you’re not understanding this correctly. The paramedics at the GP surgery are employed on the ARRS scheme along with other roles such as physician associates, healthy and wellbeing coaches, social prescribers and clinical pharmacists. They aren’t employed by the normal ambulance system so they aren’t being taken away from ambulances, they are people that are highly qualified and can deal with minor conditions and generally prescribe. (And generally worked as a paramedic on a van previously and have been worked to death and want out) the problem is NHS England have taken on these roles with no publication and the general public don’t understand, I’m ARRS and even I get confused as to who I work for! I’m paid by NHS England, employed by a federation and work in a surgery who have no have a choice whether I am there or not but have to provide me with a consultation room! It however works in practice and hours of GP time is saved by additional roles. You wouldn’t believe the utter shite people claim is “urgent” and “is definitely needing a GP”

OP I get where you are coming from but if your child isn’t well enough for school the surely someone will be with the child to take a call? If they are well enough for school…is it urgent? There is always an inconvenience for people waiting for calls and I get that it’s a pain, but there are people who don’t need an urgent same day appointment and this wheedles them out. It’s not an amazing system but I have found it to be quicker than waiting on the phone to be told there aren’t any more appointments. I don’t think there is a simple solution. Too many patients and not enough doctors by any measure 😔

I know it's frustrating at times, I had the same recently. My daughter had been 'off' for a couple of days with a sore throat and runny nose. Then as I was getting her ready for school noticed a few blisters around her mouth. I knew it was hand foot and mouth disease, did an econsult and sent pictures and stated I thought it was hand foot and mouth, I just wanted clarification really for school, I was utterly surprised when given a same day appointment with a Paramedic. I took her to the appointment and he was looking through a textbook and clarified it, it did feel like a waste of time as someone else could have had the appointment (also he said he can assess but not prescribe). On the flip side I've tried contacting the GP to request antibiotics for myself for a UTI and been told I need to be seen, but at 36 I know the symptoms and just want to be prescribed the antibiotics and go about my day without having to factor in an unnecessary trip to the GP.

I feel very grateful for my GP surgery after reading some of the replies on here. My surgery has the ring at 8am for urgent system (and to be fair, every time I've called I've managed to get an appointment - even on 28th December after they'd been closed over Christmas - I didn't get through til 9am but they still gave me an appointment)
They also do econsult where you do an online form and get a call back from a GP by the end of the next working day.
And sometimes, when they're in a quiet period, they put prebookable appointments online a week in advance. I've just booked one today, for next Wednesday, face to face with GP.

So not all GP surgeries are failing. Mine seem to be really trying as hard as possible to keep their service good. I hope that things will improve in future and all surgeries can offer better options!

I absolutely agree with you, system is CRAP, my little child got misdiagnosed over the phone, and my OH had wrong diagnosis too having to send photos of his condition.. as for convenience for a mum it's ridiculous I absolutely agree with you !

I hate this system too, since covid my doctors done this, I don't mind a call back but I sit in a queue for an hour to be told they have no more call backs.. everytime! Sitting in a queue while trying to get my 3 ready and driving to school is a PITA too, mine do econsult but takes at least 3 days for a response! I ended up going private recently but I understand its very expensive, I think you can do one off private appointments if you have a Google?

GPs are consultants in primary care. They get paid the same as a cardiologist, oncologist, surgeon or psychiatrist.
I think they are wasted prescribing antibiotics for sore throats and these types of conditions should absolutely be screened out by prescribing nurses or paramedics. I'm also amazed at how many appointments are for the repeat signing of sicknotes. It's good that this can now be done by other professionals.
The system is underfunded and is still abused by frequent flyer patients, and also by the govt. Who abuse the goodwill of staff.
I'm a HCP and have seen so many GPs utterly burn out.

This is what a decade of neglect of public services looks like.

You can readily get a GP appointment in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc...

Tories want the system to fail.