DH says he won’t honour my wishes re death.

[Chocchops72]

So all this is theoretical as (touch wood) I’m in my 50s and in good health.

i haven’t completely researched this yet, but I am very keen not to have my life extended if I descend into either a debilitating and terminal illness or develop dementia, to the extent where I am bedridden, incontinent, unable to communicate and I want to put in place whatever paperwork I can to ensure this.

DH is refusing to support me in this and says he would not enact it, for two reasons.

one, we watched a Ted talk recently which talked about ‘future selves’ and how people genuinely do change their minds about big decisions / beliefs they have, as they age. So people that have signed an advanced directive, setting out the circumstances where they wish to be allowed to die, may genuinely change their minds about this as they get older. I agree with this to an extent, but I don’t think a decision made when in full control of one’s faculties (ie now) should necessarily overrule a change of heart that might theoretically come once the person has lost the capacity to make a decision. DH has taken it totally at face value though, probably connected to the second reason.

two, his mum is currently in a nursing home. She has Parkinson’s, dementia and severe osteoporosis. She is almost totally immobile, incontinent, cannot speak, communicate or feed herself. She basically lies in a chair or lies in a bed, is fed / washed / toileted, and talked at. Or left in a room with inane cartoons blaring at her. Or being jollied along by nurses / carers. FIL visits daily: he has made these visits the sole focus of his life, his duty / responsibility and expects everyone else to think the same way. If he can’t make it, he insists that SIL (who already visits 2-3 times a week) to take his place, and he calls her every night to ‘update’ her on her mothers (unchanging) condition, which she finds very hard. DH (because we live abroad) get roped into weekly zoom calls, where he basically talks to his dad and sister while his mum sleeps through the whole thing or makes random mumbled comments. Yet because she is cared for she might live in this half-existence for years and years to come.

i have absolutely zero desire to live like this. Or for him and our two DSs to end up caring for me or binding their daily lives to me, or feeling guilty because they don’t. But DH takes it as a great insult when I says this, as if I’m suggesting his mum would be better off dead and that they (FIL and SIL in particular) are stupid for making her so much the focus of their lives.

My experience of MILs situation is that the spouse generally gets asked what the patients wishes are, and I don’t know if medical staff would go actively against the wishes of a spouse. Even if they didn’t match what the patient has written down previously.

what do you think? AIBU to expect DH to enact my stated wishes, even if they don’t accord with his beliefs?

As our mum got older, we asked about what she would want, she told us, eg she wouldn't want to be treated for illnesses, just given pain relief, DNR etc., We registered this with her GP, and were told that all HCP would have this info as and when needed.

The logical implication of what you're saying is that the MIL should be killed or starved to death

Definitely not starved to death! But I do believe in euthanasia, however I also appreciate that is not something that should ever be carried out unless it's the express wish of the person themselves, which is clearly not something they can give in a case like this.
Which brings us round to why an advance directive is important, at least for requesting eg no antibiotic or similar treatments if you live somewhere like the UK where assisted death is not legal.

Because this is something that needs to be done ahead of need arising. Once you lose mental capacity, it's too late.

It's not just an issue for ancient people, all adults need to consider it. Any body can be permanently incapacitated at ay time of life; stroke, car crash, fall, head injury.

Commiserations to you and your mum, @saraclara My MIL died of dementia after 12 years in a care home. The last couple of years were utterly grim. It would never have occurred to us to expect people not to talk about it.

I expect you’ve long gone OP and I don’t blame sine est you seem to be accused of being a cross between Myra Hindley and Rose West by the life at any costs brigade.

Just worth pointing out that the vast majority of voters on the thread agree with you.

Totally agree with this! Thinking that you will always have time in the future is how you get into terrible situations. Now is the right time to start having these conversations and putting decisions down in writing, whenever now is. As for having to wait until the OP's MIL has died so as not to be accused of being insensitive - that could be years in the future. Anything could happen in that time. You don't usually get advance warning of how and when your health situation is going to change.

I did come back and provide more context / background but I don’t think many people saw it. thanks for pointing out the way the vote has gone. My question was not about what ‘should’ happen to MIL: it’s about what I would want to happen for me (notwithstanding I totally agree that we all have very little control over what life actually brings).

The above post was aimed at @Allthegoodnamesarechosen

This is abhorrent, illegal and could be interpreted as an incitement to violence.

Incitement to violence? What on Earth are you on about?

This is why a sensible discussion cannot be had, posters derailing it for reasons known only to themselves.

I see where your dh is coming from- when my dad was dying he had the days you couldn’t wish on anyone coupled with everything going because of his brain tumour but then on his very rare good days he’d say he was so relieved he could still see a sunrise or a daffodil and he really really didn’t want to leave this earth. As a result even on here I spouted the ‘but everyone should cling on to life to get any good’ crap. Then I watched my fil die. All similar to my dad with his cancer, brain tumour, except he really didn’t want to fight it, on his better days he begged for a way out and I realised not everyone has the same opinions. And it’s not a being positive or being negative thing- both were insanely positive people, it’s just that some people are tired of the fight- as they have every right to be, or don’t want to fight at all. So I see both your sides

I agree with this and while it’s painful for your DH, he’s in denial. His mother WOULD be better off dead - we wouldn’t let an animal suffer to that degree and frankly I think it’s utterly barbaric that humans lives are prolonged to this degree. Euthanasia should absolutely be legal. I’d even support one step further of doctors advising euthanasia for patients with no quality of live - exactly as we do for pets. If it was my parent in the nursing home I’d want them gently put out of their misery rather than exist as a nonverbal incontinent shell. I know they wouldn’t want that for themselves either, and I certainly wouldn’t want it for me - I’d rather take myself to dignitas while I still had capacity.

now is absolutely the right time to talk about it. DH’s family have done themselves absolutely no favours by pretending illness and death doesn’t exist and refusing to face reality or talk about these things previously. It’s scary and it’s upsetting but collectively we need to get over the fact that these things happen, are a distinct possibly for anyone and everyone (and death is a certainty) and talk about it openly. There was another thread on the British death taboo which was a good conversation on this.

I don’t think you’re being insensitive OP I think you’re being entirely rational.

@TedMullins It was the British death taboo thread that prompted me to post this question I think.

It's so odd for me, coming from a family where death, funerals, wills, etc are not considered taboo or scary. I was sitting watching tv with FIL once and an advert for a cremation service came on, and I asked him if he had a preference for burial or cremation. He was properly outraged, like really offended: you'd think I was planning to march him to the crematorium gates that afternoon and shove him through. When it was last discussed with my parents, it was an prompt to talk about family members who have died - my own grandparents mostly - and what they'd all chosen, where they were buried and / or remembered, how their funerals had been and general reminiscing about them. My dad talked about wanting to be buried in his family plot back where he grew up, my mum wants cremated and scattered in her beloved garden somewhere (it's quite a big, rural garden, I'm sure we'd find a spot for her). We all die, I don't think there is anything morbid in talking about and preparing mentally for it.

There's quite a difference between preparing for it and talking about it, and acting as though posters saying your MIL would be better off dead are somehow reasonable when actually they are being extremely callous.

And yy there is a massive push from the Conservatives to normalise assisted dying and euthanasia - because they only value people for what they can produce and what they can contribute to the economy. Ironically their push to normalise euthanasia comes just as countries with more liberal policies are grappling with the reality of what it means when a depressed teenager can commit state sanctioned suicide. The legal establishment are struggling with all these complexities and it's not rational to pretend they do not exist or that humans are the same as pets or that it's odd to expect a partner to be more sensitive to others' sense of loss.

Referring to those who are suggesting the MIL should not continue to live in this way.

So what? Someone has an opinion that differs from the one you have, what a horror.

It's not like they are descending on the nursing home brandishing syringes dripping with morphine.

No advice but feel so sorry for your father in law, the poor man, hes just existing too

YABU. You cannot ask someone who loves you to help kill you (which they would be doing by taking you to a clinic or signing something to that effect). That kind of burden is quite a horrible thing to put on someone. If you want a DNR, fine, anything more than that is not sth you can expect him to do.

And given his family situation, it's an insensitive thing to insist on. You are essentially saying his mother is a burden and should die.

Also, having seen 2 of my own family members spend the last 10 years of their lives in a similar vein - i can tell you they were very much loved, did not want to die, and did have a lot of moments of happiness alongside the obvious suffering. It's easy to say now that you would want to die but you have no idea.

Nope I've nursed many people others are free to make their own decisions but the one thing I'm frightened of is being afraid and not content. I've had to hold people's hands while they cry in distress. It's nothing to do with being a burden but I know what I want my death to be like. Quick and not drawn out for years slowly declining to a husk. Other people want that , I don't it's my own bodily autonomy.

Right now there's no legalities to ask for a quick death , the only thing I can do is write an advanced decision asking for no artificial hydration or nutrition and pain relief only. I will have to starve myself to death that's the only rights we have. I hope I get a student who accidentally overdoses me , we have no rights in this country for a quick death.

She isn't asking him to kill her she's asking him to support her advanced decision of refusing life sustaining treatment which is completely legal.

Compassion in Dying have some great resources around things like living wills. Their helpline is excellent and can talk through things in a calm, practical way with you.

Compassion in Dying

I've worked in tbi and this is my worst nightmare being kept alive in a vegetative state bed bound or incredibly distressed for years with no hope of recovery. Other people might be ok with that but I would want to die.

You can't say these things like they're the same for everyone. I personally would find it a much worse burden to be forced to stay alive because my family members would feel bad otherwise, and as I said above, would rather die far before my time than have to live on in misery. People have different views and it's unfair to tell people they have to conform to wanting to prolong life beyond someone's wishes.

You can't say these things like they're the same for everyone. I personally would find it a much worse burden to be forced to stay alive because my family members would feel bad otherwise, and as I said above, would rather die far before my time than have to live on in misery. People have different views and it's unfair to tell people they have to conform to wanting to prolong life beyond someone's wishes.

Absolutely.

Wanting to prolong someone's life at any cost is seen as the "good" option, the one that conforms to societal norms. We feel unable to say that, actually, this is not always what's best for everyone.

I would hate for my family to keep me just existing because they would feel have to do, out of a misunderstood obligations.

@Verylongtime
I stand by my statement - my late husband would very much liked to have lived, but he had terminal cancer, and a DNAR was done for him. He did not choose it. He did, however, accept it.

I think whilst he comes to terms with his Mum's condition is probably the wrong time to have this conversation. He may well feelmvery differently a few years down the line or infact if he has to watch her die a slow painful death. Please write your will and give your requests but maybe lay off trying to convince him for now.