DH says he won’t honour my wishes re death.

[Chocchops72]

So all this is theoretical as (touch wood) I’m in my 50s and in good health.

i haven’t completely researched this yet, but I am very keen not to have my life extended if I descend into either a debilitating and terminal illness or develop dementia, to the extent where I am bedridden, incontinent, unable to communicate and I want to put in place whatever paperwork I can to ensure this.

DH is refusing to support me in this and says he would not enact it, for two reasons.

one, we watched a Ted talk recently which talked about ‘future selves’ and how people genuinely do change their minds about big decisions / beliefs they have, as they age. So people that have signed an advanced directive, setting out the circumstances where they wish to be allowed to die, may genuinely change their minds about this as they get older. I agree with this to an extent, but I don’t think a decision made when in full control of one’s faculties (ie now) should necessarily overrule a change of heart that might theoretically come once the person has lost the capacity to make a decision. DH has taken it totally at face value though, probably connected to the second reason.

two, his mum is currently in a nursing home. She has Parkinson’s, dementia and severe osteoporosis. She is almost totally immobile, incontinent, cannot speak, communicate or feed herself. She basically lies in a chair or lies in a bed, is fed / washed / toileted, and talked at. Or left in a room with inane cartoons blaring at her. Or being jollied along by nurses / carers. FIL visits daily: he has made these visits the sole focus of his life, his duty / responsibility and expects everyone else to think the same way. If he can’t make it, he insists that SIL (who already visits 2-3 times a week) to take his place, and he calls her every night to ‘update’ her on her mothers (unchanging) condition, which she finds very hard. DH (because we live abroad) get roped into weekly zoom calls, where he basically talks to his dad and sister while his mum sleeps through the whole thing or makes random mumbled comments. Yet because she is cared for she might live in this half-existence for years and years to come.

i have absolutely zero desire to live like this. Or for him and our two DSs to end up caring for me or binding their daily lives to me, or feeling guilty because they don’t. But DH takes it as a great insult when I says this, as if I’m suggesting his mum would be better off dead and that they (FIL and SIL in particular) are stupid for making her so much the focus of their lives.

My experience of MILs situation is that the spouse generally gets asked what the patients wishes are, and I don’t know if medical staff would go actively against the wishes of a spouse. Even if they didn’t match what the patient has written down previously.

what do you think? AIBU to expect DH to enact my stated wishes, even if they don’t accord with his beliefs?

Not read all of the comments or replies, sorry not enough time, will do when I get a moment as an interesting topic.

I have voted unreasonable, not because I disagree. I am a Social worker and as a student was almost broken by a client who was lovely and extraordinary, but like you had decided if their condition deteriorated they would rather not live that life. Their death(suicide) which was planned really took a long time for me to recover from, it destroyed their spouse and children, who came to me for support. I now understand their view and respect it. But that call with the spouse the day they found them will never leave me.

Where you are unreasonable is maybe the language you use, to him that's how you are describing his clearly loved mother, if you have no underlying illness or concerns, is now, whilst his mother is suffering from the conditions you fear the time to discuss it with him? He will likely be clinging to some view she is still there, still his mother (which she is). I also felt (sorry) you are a tad dismissive regarding the absolute devotion her husband has towards caring for her. I no longer work with older adults but that daily contact with FIL will be more important than you may ever comprehend. He clearly loves her, whether you feel it's a burden he should not suffer is not for you to decide. In short, unreasonable, wrong time to have these chats, also you don't need his permission, sort all the paperwork out yourself. (I do agree though, I would make the same plans as you). Wish you all the best.

You can download the necessary paperwork complete it and give it to your GP to file with your medical notes. Your DH cannot over rule your wishes. I know several people who have done this. Usually your GP will want to discuss it with you. The process is pretty thorough and takes you through all in potential stages of decision making. Lacking capacity, terminal diagnosis, chronic severe pain etc. I would carry on if you feel strongly. I do but I'm very unkeen on residential care for various reasons. Here is a tip. Ask for antibiotics not to be administered if you lack capacity. The phrase used is " Let nature take it's course". So no chemo, no surgical intervention, no procedures, no antibiotics, but yes to water, tea, champagne, nice food, music, perfumes, comfy clean bed, pain killers, my priest, my family, stories and faith.

You should be able to expect it, but experience tells me that you can't. Here in the US, there are all sorts of forms that one can sign about what is and what is not to be done. Living Wills, and other orders. Just to make sure your OWN wishes are upheld. We have ten state who now have "Death with Dignity" laws, which is medically assisted suicide. My sons have promised to, if necessary, move me to one of them and arrange it for me IF that time should come.

There may also be (there are here) forms you can sign saying that you wish to be kept comfortable, even if the levels of medication required to do so may shorten your life. You need to ask a solicitor who specialized in these things, or who has experience in end of life planning, to see what is available in GB.

i would say it’s a good thing to know what you want when you have capacity to make it clear how you want to die. We ignore this aspect of life and it’s really sad that families ignore the wishes of loved ones. Let’s face it, no one knows what’s around the corner, so when do we tackle life changing situations on end of life care? When it’s happening is often a bit too late.

Agree with this entirely, I think this boils down to OP just not reading the room, not whether or not her wishes should be honoured by her husband!

@JudgeRudy

I've already discussed with my mum that she won't be coming to live with me and I won't be doing much more than a bit of shopping and maybe order something on line. If she needs much more she'll need to go in a care home. Happy to loose my inheritance to fund it. I've also said same to my adult children.

This honestly made me laugh out loud!

I think all the people on here saying that the OP needs to be sensitive to her DH's situation have absolutely no idea what it's like to have an elderly relative suffering for years from dementia. If his mother meant so much to him he'd be back in the same country as her, visiting her regularly — not finding it uncomfortable to do a weekly FaceTime session.

Now that is a ridiculous idea - a whole family return to a country because his Mum is ill with something that could go on for years? How do they live if job is abroad? Have been in this situation. Life has to go on.

I think there is usually a period of time between getting a diagnosis/prognosis that shows you will deteriorate when people could realistically choose to off themselves somehow surely, rather than put such a big decision onto the people that love you.

That's a risk that some people might be willing to take. What if it's a debilitating stroke, which are not uncommon, or a head injury? Thinking about possibilities in advance is usually considered sensible, but in the case of life-changing illness and death it seems many people are hesitant to prepare.

@Chocchops72 - I'm not sure what you expect your DH to do if, you're in the UK and you end up with the illnesses your MIL has and in the same situation. Yes he doesn't have to ring your kids / family every day, you could say he doesn't have to visit daily, but that would be up to him. Unfortunately, unless there is a massive change in UK law, your MILs situation, and as a horrible situation it is, will be how you woluld be. It is truly awful to watch a loved one go through these illnesses.

If he's so devastated by his mum's situation that death and illness and his wife's choices must not be mentioned then yes, come back to the UK and be with her. I'm sure that would make him think twice about the idea of keeping people alive as long as possible.

"death and illness and his wife's choices must not be mentioned "

This is disingenuous. The OP is youngish and has no health problems. There is no urgency to discuss this now. OP is showing zero sensitivity.

Well that would make it more difficult, but if your partner wont agree to kill you in advance then I dont think its something you can push for.
I like to think id carry out my loved ones wishes in this way, but im not sure i could promise it. I dont personally find death a taboo subject, but that doesnt mean id be all chilled about someone asking me to do this. Its a massive ask.

It's so difficult , and for many different and very valid reasons.
I agree that how you think you may feel given a catastrophic situation may not be how you actually feel if the worst happens .
I remember seeing a TV programme where a man had had a brain stem stroke, the only movement he had was to blink his eyelid. The interviewer asked him if he wouldn't rather be dead , his circumstances looked so dire to the onlooker.
He blinked twice for No.
From then on , I tried never to make assumptions , his desire for life was so strong.

@Lovelyveg80 ? It wasn't supposed to be funny....though reading it back it does sound blunt. This was essentially the conclusion of a perfectly civil conversation. I love my mum., and my kids love me. We just don't want to give hands on care

That doesn't look like a photo of someone deprived of food and water - 28 days without food or water you would be skeletal.

How exactly do you suggest people should “off themselves”? And at what point? It’s not as easy, both in a physical and psychological way, as you make out.

It’s obviously not the actual woman, we might print some gross pictures in the media but I think we draw the line at pictures of elderly corpses!

But she looks comfortable and asleep which makes the son sound hysterical - she would not have looked like that.
I think the prob is not warning family about what can happen - best would be he took her home for last days but as he had no idea how long she could last probably didn’t consider that.
If a patient is nil by mouth as they can’t swallow then either they are fed through drips and stomach tubes or they are left to starve. Unfortunately no one knows (or is warned it could take a long time) so this is the outcome.
We need proper conversations.

But she looks comfortable and asleep which makes the son sound hysterical

It’s not her! It’s a stock picture of a random woman.

yes a random happily dozing woman - misleading

Look into making a Living Will. Good luck

Hi Chocchops72

I work at a charity that support people to plan ahead for their end of life so thought it may help if I clarify a few things.

Many people have clear views about what it is they do and do not want if they were to become very unwell and we find people are often triggered as a result of a personal experience.

This is why some people choose to create a legally binding Advance Decision (aka a living will). It can help ensure you get the treatment and care that is right for you if you later lose the capacity to make such decisions for yourself.

Health care professionals and relatives cannot over rule a valid and applicable Advance Decision form but it is important that the document is well shared so it is known about and can be followed if it is ever needed.

You can call the free nurse led information line service for support to talk through and complete an Advance Decision 0800 999 2434 or email info(at)compassionindying.org.uk

You can also access the Advance Decision form here:

https://compassionindying.org.uk/how-we-can-help/living-will-advance-decision/

An Advance Decision form can be revoked or changed at any point prior to losing the capacity to make the decisions outlined within it.

I hope this helps but would suggest you get in touch directly for more info.