Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Can a volatile relationship ever change?

30 replies

Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 14:03

Inspired by another thread, I'd love opinions on my relationship. I'm aware this is AIBU but am feeling robust enough to take any inevitable criticism on the chin.

This is potentially very outing too so I'll try to be detailed enough whilst also being vague, bear with me!

My partner and I only met a few times before I found out I was pregnant. Yes yes, irresponsible I know, no judgement required. I decided to keep the child, despite us not having a solid relationship at that time, giving a few options to him, e.g. I'd go it alone, or we could co-parent, or else we could make a go at creating a family unit.

We chose this last option, but it has been hard. I mean really hard. We are not naturally compatible, and there are traits in him that I would not choose in a partner usually, both superficial (e.g. I am a deep thinker and love a debate, he really only gets animated about cars) as well as substantial (e.g. I feel he doesn't really listen to me). I'm not faultless (I can be chaotic, demanding, and over sensitive when I’m tired) and he also brings out some bad behaviour in me too when we argue (which I’ll come on to in a bit). Nevertheless, three years later and we now have a second child, are planning a life together, and are consistently working at strengthening 'us'. He’s a great father, a good man, and is evolving (as I am) into a good and thoughtful partner - we had both been the ‘eternal bachelor’ type before, so we have been learning how to live with someone else let alone how to parent!

I guess my issue is that as we work at our relationship we argue a lot, and badly. It often follows a pattern - he takes out his bad mood on me, I defend myself, and it escalates - or else I respond negatively to one of the traits that I dislike. In the past I laid the blame firmly at his feet (I wouldn’t need to argue if I weren’t defending myself!) but I think now that it’s more nuanced, and it’s how we respond to one another that is the issue. I revert to some terrible teenage tantrum style of shouting - it's awful and something I trained myself out of years ago. Indeed, I pride myself on being an effective communicator generally! He on the other hand is passive and sulky when we row. But both of us have done the silent treatment, we have sworn at each other, have said some awful things (in front of our toddler too) and in any other circumstances I would not have stayed around. It has been toxic at times.

However, I think we have hope. We always reflect on our arguments, and are beginning to recognise the triggers - recently we have tried a few techniques to pull us back if it escalates e.g. a code word or leaving the room or a change in tone of voice. He is open to seeing a couples counsellor (albeit a little grudgingly, I think he thinks we're generally fine and can handle this ourselves, whereas I think we need objective support). Our children mean the world to us and we know that we must model good behaviour. I have also been nothing but pregnant and sleep deprived since we met so I'm not even sure if this is the 'real' us if that makes sense.

I guess my AIBU is am I deluding myself? The post I referred to at the start had lots of people saying they never had shouty arguments with their partner. I would usually agree, it's never something I'd ever countenance were it not for our young children and the fact that I don't think we've given our relationship a chance. We haven't even been on a date yet, if you can believe that! (We met during lockdown, and since then I’ve been EBF or pregnant so childcare has been last of my priorities)

I just don't want to give up yet, not until the hormones and fatigue have subsided.

I'll be absolutely clear - if we continue arguing then I will absolutely leave, and we have discussed this. The children come first and I do not want to model this sort of relationship to them, I've had my own share of dysfunctional parental influences to do that to my own. But can a relationship survive this sort of topsy turvy start - children first, then love and respect and longevity - or would anyone suggest it'll end terribly despite the work we're willing to put in?

(I'm not asking what I should do, I have no intention of leaving just yet, just curious as to other experiences and opinions).

OP posts:
SparklingLime · 21/03/2023 14:06

Your toddler is being impacted now. All the curiosity and navel gazing in the world won't impact that.

Thepeopleversuswork · 21/03/2023 14:13

Honestly? Yes you are deluding yourself.

You are putting a very constructive spin on two extremely incompatible people who want different things and are not able to compromise and put differences aside for the benefit of your children. And he’s not a “great dad”.

You appear to answer your own question when you say you will leave if you continue arguing all the time. That ship has sailed.

Not going to pass judgment: what’s happened has happened but you have the power to decide whether your kids should spent decades being subjected to this and they don’t.

Stop putting a happy gloss on this chaotic mess and do the right thing.

Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 14:18

SparklingLime · 21/03/2023 14:06

Your toddler is being impacted now. All the curiosity and navel gazing in the world won't impact that.

Yes, and I understand the navel gazing comment too, that's fair enough. The arguing in front of her was the worst thing I've ever done believe me. But this is why we are working on the triggers and behaviour that would immediately impact them - first we allow ourselves to calm down and not argue in front of the children and then we look at the topic of disagreement.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm trying to create a solid family unit born out of a very unconventional beginning.

Right now our toddler is an absolute joy, and we make sure we show love at all other times (when we don't argue we are very happy!)

OP posts:
Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 14:24

Thepeopleversuswork · 21/03/2023 14:13

Honestly? Yes you are deluding yourself.

You are putting a very constructive spin on two extremely incompatible people who want different things and are not able to compromise and put differences aside for the benefit of your children. And he’s not a “great dad”.

You appear to answer your own question when you say you will leave if you continue arguing all the time. That ship has sailed.

Not going to pass judgment: what’s happened has happened but you have the power to decide whether your kids should spent decades being subjected to this and they don’t.

Stop putting a happy gloss on this chaotic mess and do the right thing.

But we don't want very different things. We ultimately want the same thing, and I hope we can learn to get there together.

We certainly won't spend decades working at this, but it has been an insane few years with hormones and sleep deprivation and life changing decisions. I don't want to ruin a potentially good relationship before it's begun because everything is foggy.

I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it, but I genuinely want this to work, as does he, and we are doing everything we can to make it happen.

OP posts:
Thepeopleversuswork · 21/03/2023 14:32

@Daffydaff

I can see you want it to work but wanting it to work on its own isn’t enough. You are trying to make it all sound reasonable but it’s extremely apparent that it’s a volatile and unhealthy relationship and you very clearly are not well suited.

If you want to take a couple more years of this in the hope that it will magically turn around who am I to stop you?

But for your children’s sake it will be much cleaner and easier to do this sooner rather than burdening them with it as the become older and more aware of the fact you have an awful relationship.

SparklingLime · 21/03/2023 14:38

"Right now our toddler is an absolute joy, and we make sure we show love at all other times (when we don't argue we are very happy!)"

Your arguments and the atmosphere will be negatively affecting your toddler. You are trying to gloss over that. Crack on. The main person who will be affected is her. She has no choice to get out of your mess.

Won't engage further as you don't seem interested in reality, just in gazing in fascination at the "unconventional" mess you and your partner have created.

Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 14:42

Thepeopleversuswork · 21/03/2023 14:32

@Daffydaff

I can see you want it to work but wanting it to work on its own isn’t enough. You are trying to make it all sound reasonable but it’s extremely apparent that it’s a volatile and unhealthy relationship and you very clearly are not well suited.

If you want to take a couple more years of this in the hope that it will magically turn around who am I to stop you?

But for your children’s sake it will be much cleaner and easier to do this sooner rather than burdening them with it as the become older and more aware of the fact you have an awful relationship.

Fair enough. I'd probably say the same thing if it were me commenting on someone else's post. It doesn't look great does it. And it's probably something I've said myself to friends in the past. But the past few weeks have felt different - we've communicated about things more calmly, we have taken a step back from the usual escalation, and I feel hopeful. I do think a large part of this stems from hormones and tiredness - things that test even the most solid of relationships - as well as the whirlwind relationship. Once the dust settles we'll take stock, but in the meantime we will not be arguing in front of the toddler again I can assure you. Once was enough :(

OP posts:
Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 14:48

SparklingLime · 21/03/2023 14:38

"Right now our toddler is an absolute joy, and we make sure we show love at all other times (when we don't argue we are very happy!)"

Your arguments and the atmosphere will be negatively affecting your toddler. You are trying to gloss over that. Crack on. The main person who will be affected is her. She has no choice to get out of your mess.

Won't engage further as you don't seem interested in reality, just in gazing in fascination at the "unconventional" mess you and your partner have created.

Ha! Well now, thanks for your grand announcement of no engagement. No gazing in fascination here, I am being genuine in my replies, but you crack on yourself Hmm

OP posts:
Dodecaheidyin · 21/03/2023 14:50

we have taken a step back from the usual escalation

Escalation of what? Him taking out his bad moods on you? Well done on taking a step back from the escalation but it needs to be worked on further back in the pattern ...

NeedToChangeName · 21/03/2023 14:53

Volatile relationships can change, but it's really, really hard work and both parents have to be willing to put in the effort

If there's domestic abuse, then the perpetrator needs to want to change. Most don't. Not really. They'll go through the motions, but deep down, they don't want to

Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 15:08

Dodecaheidyin · 21/03/2023 14:50

we have taken a step back from the usual escalation

Escalation of what? Him taking out his bad moods on you? Well done on taking a step back from the escalation but it needs to be worked on further back in the pattern ...

I agree. There will be deeper rooted causes to work on (hence the couples counselling). I think it was just all so sudden, our lives got turned upside down, and I suspect he struggled with my decision for a while, which probably prompted some of these 'moods'. I refused to be the brunt of these moods and so would argue my case, et voila, escalation (me shouting).

As I write that I see I'm not painting either of us in a good light but it is changing. We are changing. I do not recognise 'shouty me' and I do not like it. And he is recognising that his moods are often the trigger and is working at that too. And with a bit more space and time and counselling support I do think we will either have a strong relationship - or else we will part ways but be strong co-parents.
^
Am I naive? Maybe. But it's just too soon to give up I feel?^

OP posts:
Thepeopleversuswork · 21/03/2023 15:13

@Daffydaff

I don't know, OP I don't know you or your partner so I can't really know. But it does come across in your post that you are trying to be very upbeat and hopeful about something based on a few good weeks and it smells pretty self-delusional to me, like someone trying to convince themselves of something that deep down they know isn't working. I may be wrong as well but it feels as if most of the "escalation" and "volatility" is coming from him and you're bending over backwards to toe the line in order not to send him off.

If you think giving it another year will make your mind up then do it but I would start planning a future without him and if it really turns around it's a positive upside. I wouldn't bank on it though.

Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 15:15

NeedToChangeName · 21/03/2023 14:53

Volatile relationships can change, but it's really, really hard work and both parents have to be willing to put in the effort

If there's domestic abuse, then the perpetrator needs to want to change. Most don't. Not really. They'll go through the motions, but deep down, they don't want to

Thanks for that. We do both want this so badly. And no domestic abuse although some would say arguing is the tip of the iceberg. Which is why we are working bloody hard at this. Both of us. We have a lot of love for one another, it's just adapting to each other and parenting and living with one another all at the same time.

OP posts:
Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 15:30

Thepeopleversuswork · 21/03/2023 15:13

@Daffydaff

I don't know, OP I don't know you or your partner so I can't really know. But it does come across in your post that you are trying to be very upbeat and hopeful about something based on a few good weeks and it smells pretty self-delusional to me, like someone trying to convince themselves of something that deep down they know isn't working. I may be wrong as well but it feels as if most of the "escalation" and "volatility" is coming from him and you're bending over backwards to toe the line in order not to send him off.

If you think giving it another year will make your mind up then do it but I would start planning a future without him and if it really turns around it's a positive upside. I wouldn't bank on it though.

You may be right. Feeling upbeat based on a few good weeks... maybe I am being an idiot. But I just don't know how else to be right now, we just haven't given 'us' a chance! Honestly, the sleep deprivation with my first was insane and then I was pregnant again so now I have two under two with more sleep deprivation to look forward to. We have not had a chance to woo each other, we went right into the logistics of life. I think we owe it to our children to fight for us a little longer.

I think your post is pretty astute on the whole though. Apart from the bending over backwards bit as part of the arguments are me not putting up with any crap. But yes, we have both discussed a future if it just can't work between us, so we are not totally delusional I guess.

OP posts:
Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 15:34

I think I was initially inspired to write this as in the other post so many people said they never argued with their partner and I realised that I once upon a time would have said that, but here I am and I sometimes scratch my head at the whole thing. It made me think about how things change and how you deal with it or even if you should...

OP posts:
Pleasecreateausername13 · 21/03/2023 15:41

OP I’ll go against the grain and say it can work. But you both need to want it and you both need to go to couples counselling.

It’s the only way forward in my opinion or split.

Justforlaffs · 21/03/2023 15:49

Do you love him? Does he love you? Are there more good times than bad?

People in relationships argue sometimes - dh and I try not to do it in front of the kids. I would say we get along and are happy about 85% of the time, we care about one another, want the other to be happy and still have a good sex life/fancy one another.

Its unrealistic to expect you’ll never argue especially when you are still getting to know one another and have 2 young children. The thing that would concern me the most is that you don’t seem to have anything in common. An intelligent person who enjoys varied conversation and lively debate is likely to get very bored of someone who generally only talks about cars when the kids become less of a priority.

Dodecaheidyin · 21/03/2023 16:06

There will be deeper rooted causes to work on (hence the couples counselling). I think it was just all so sudden, our lives got turned upside down, and I suspect he struggled with my decision for a while, which probably prompted some of these 'moods'. I refused to be the brunt of these moods and so would argue my case, et voila, escalation (me shouting).

One thing that's niggling the back of my mind is that often what are called volatile or toxic relationships are ones in which the victim of the abuser is reacting to the abuse. The abuser can say or do something with the intent that their victim will react, then the abuser can say they are the victim. I really hope that's not the case with you but I couldn't not mention it.

And if you have any doubts at all that this could be the case, please go for counselling on your own as couples counselling with an abuser is never a good idea, more often than not it will work out even worse for the victim.

I know that all may sound quite melodramatic but it's often very difficult to see the subtleties of abuse when you're in the midst of a relationship. You say you scratch your head at the whole thing, that could be relevant.

Hopefully not, OP, I wish you well Flowers

Kay286 · 21/03/2023 16:08

Op I think you’ve already decided and are making excuses for validation of keeping trying to make it work for the kids.
I was in a similar relationship (albeit I was young and 20 so didn’t know any better )
got pregnant quickly with someone completely unsuitable but as we had a baby together tried to make it work. I at the time loved him also,but it was a completely toxic relationship and brought out the worst in me, arguing and screaming at each other. He did worse things also, but when we didn’t argue it was good so I kept focused on that and “I should make it work for my kid”. It didn’t work it got worse we were just not compatible and such an awful
volatile relationship.
I got out when my daughter was 3 and have never looked back best decision I ever made. Have been married so my soul mate for 14 years who is compatible with me and have the best strongest relationship and my daughter is now 19 and he is an amazing father figure to her.
So based on my experience it’s a no from me .. sorry it should not be this hard. If it’s not right now it’s probably
wont ever be.

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 21/03/2023 16:35

Hi @Daffydaff

I'm one of the people from the other thread, and while I didn't say we never argued, I did say we never shouted at each other.

My relationship also came from quite a similar place as yours. We had a baby very early, however rather than finding out my DP was pregnant a few weeks in, we found out we were having a baby when my DP went into labour 11 months into the relationship. We had no idea she was pregnant (long story that I won't derail this thread with), weren't living together, and the relationship probably wasn't long for this world before my daughter turned up.

Like you, we decided to make a go of it, and 15 years later I can say it was the best decision I ever made. The first few years were very difficult, we were learning how to be in a proper relationship whilst already having a child together. And we argued plenty. But we did it calmly, without shouting at each other, without hurling insults and abuse at each other.

This is what you and your partner need to teach yourself, not to never argue, but to do it calmly. I learnt to do it in my teens. I'm a big bloke, with a very deep voice that sounds intimidating even when I'm just in a bad mood. When I lost my rag as a teen, I fucking terrified people. So I quickly learnt that when I felt that impulse to raise my voice and shout, I needed to shut my mouth. Give it 10 seconds and then make my point, without the volume.

If you and your partner want this to work, you need to learn this skill, and fast. You will be harming your children by having them be party to flaming rows between the two of you. I grew up in that house, and it was hideous. I'd have much preferred my parents split up.

If you can't make this work now, better to split up and co-parent amicably while you still can.

Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 17:09

Ah these are good responses. I really appreciate them. They are actually making me a bit sad as I think there's truth in that I'm convincing myself. But I am just so tired and confused and we've had such a journey that I think (hope) maybe we can come back from where we currently are. But I also suspect that I've been so caught up in everything that I've forgotten what a normal relationship feels like (I've not had the greatest track record here). I agree to those who say it shouldn't be this hard, but then again, we have had some tricky hurdles to jump over that many don't this early on!

Forgive the drip feed but there is added pressure on this to work as we are from different countries and I don't want the children to grow up without knowing their father well (as I did). Currently deciding whether to move there or he move here. Risky perhaps, but we owe it to us and the children - as long as the arguing stops.

The other post really struck me, hearing from those who had parents that argued throughout their childhood. I cannot and will not continue the way we argue in the short term, and in the long term (whether we stay together or not) we will work on the root of the arguments themselves. We will always be in each others lives so this will remain important. And as I said, the children are just the centre of our world - on that we both agree.

OP posts:
GlassBunion · 21/03/2023 17:17

You've used the words 'tired,' 'confused' and 'journey.'

A loving relationship shouldn't feel like this.

You embarked on a relationship as you became pregnant quickly. It wasn't a great relationship as you said you both had to work on it, yet you got pregnant again.

What you have described is not a happy, healthy environment for your children yet you're considering moving to his home country?

You really need to think about your children first and foremost.

Lostmarblesfinder · 21/03/2023 17:22

I’m going to massively go against the grain here and say this is possible to turn around. I read out your post to DH and he agrees we could have written a chunk of it in the past or at least something similar and we are together 20 years and the volatility is gone and we communicate very effectively now. We changed it by growing the feck up. Both of us played our part in the dysfunctional behaviour and both of us had to grow up. To speed things up couples therapy could really help you.

Kay286 · 21/03/2023 17:23

Daffydaff · 21/03/2023 17:09

Ah these are good responses. I really appreciate them. They are actually making me a bit sad as I think there's truth in that I'm convincing myself. But I am just so tired and confused and we've had such a journey that I think (hope) maybe we can come back from where we currently are. But I also suspect that I've been so caught up in everything that I've forgotten what a normal relationship feels like (I've not had the greatest track record here). I agree to those who say it shouldn't be this hard, but then again, we have had some tricky hurdles to jump over that many don't this early on!

Forgive the drip feed but there is added pressure on this to work as we are from different countries and I don't want the children to grow up without knowing their father well (as I did). Currently deciding whether to move there or he move here. Risky perhaps, but we owe it to us and the children - as long as the arguing stops.

The other post really struck me, hearing from those who had parents that argued throughout their childhood. I cannot and will not continue the way we argue in the short term, and in the long term (whether we stay together or not) we will work on the root of the arguments themselves. We will always be in each others lives so this will remain important. And as I said, the children are just the centre of our world - on that we both agree.

Does he not currently live with you ?
Please please do not move to another country with your kids - you may end up
completely isolated and not able to move back with them !
Im glad he is a good father at least . You can be good parents separately.
I do feel like you’re optimistic about forcing a on with a relationship which probably wouldn’t have continued had you not had children. But I wish you the best of luck and hope it works out …. Give it a set amount of time and if it’s still clear nothing is changing .. get out ! Please don’t waste your life trying to be happy in an unsuitable volatile relationship while your kids watch on :(
Honestly I thank my lucky stars every day I got out and in a happy healthy relationship now !