To refuse to leave rented property

[Boymamabee]

I’m having an ethical dilemma thanks to my husband…

I’m heavily pregnant (due a c-section next month) and we’ve been served a two month no-fault notice by our landlord (it’s all valid).

We’re struggling to find rented properties within our price range and although we’re at risk of homelessness, the council can’t guarantee temp accommodation before our notice expires. This makes my husband anxious as he says we have no right to stay in a house we don’t own and it’s unfair on the LL whose sale might fall through.

Places for the same amount of rent, or less, than we currently pay are more rural and would cost more fuel. Many of the local schools don’t have specialised facilities for kids with ASD (think rural schools with 20 students and 2 LSAs) and DS LOVES his school!

This is where it gets tricky…

We’ve been advised that if we stay with family or friends before the LL enacts a court possession order, we could be seen as making ourselves “intentionally homeless”. Likewise if we get ourselves into debt/arrears living somewhere we can’t afford.

I’ve proposed we listen to
their advice and stay put for now, but DH thinks it’s selfish and we’ll naturally find another way to make ends meet. He wants to be out before our contract ends and he feels sorry for the LL who’s going through a divorce.

AIBU?

@HamBone it’s sold but the buyer wants to live here so we have to leave. We were told it would be sold with us remaining as tenants. I suppose it was always a risk.

It's the landlords property. Not yours. You wouldn't steal a car (maybe you would?). You can't steal a house. you will cost someone else a lot of money If you stay.

I literally cannot believe people are saying not to leave and let the landlord incur court and bailiff costs and lose a sale. Imagine the stress and sleepless nights as well as the financial loss.

Yes, she should make her children literally homeless for someone else's extra house.

Of course, there are no sleepless nights when you are housing insecure. Fuck off.

Yes, she should make her children literally homeless for someone else's extra house.

People keep making comments like this as if, if the OP digs her heels in, the landlord will simply capitulate let her stay forever - probably even with a rent reduction. It won’t happen. There will be months of highly stressful legal wrangling ahead. The end result will be the same; or rather, the OP will be without a home, but with a court ordered eviction on her record. That’s before you even consider that the landlord could whack the rent up in the meantime, stop carrying out maintenance etc.

Would anyone ever rent to you again if you had a court ordered eviction on your record? Do you have to declare such things?

Yes, @WomanStanleyWoman2 , he’s already got a buyer and is clearly. determined to get rid of the property. Tbh, even if this sale falls through, it’s unlikely to be sold to another LL in the current climate. The OP’s family can stay until they’re evicted, but the end result will probably be the same.

I had a tenant do this-she was advised to by the council - she actually stayed until the bailiffs cam/court (which i'm guessing was stressful for her as well)
[ just to be clear I used a no fault Section 21 - but she was also not paying- removing tenants for not paying is problematic]
It actually ended up in court where she didn't have a leg to stand on - and she ended up with all my costs as well (including bailiffs)- so i'm not sure how it worked out for her ultimately (not sure if she got a house) - so you need to weigh up the pros and cons,
What have your local council said? what would the temporary accomodation be?
can you speak to the buyer at all and get an extension?

I do hate the local council's attitude on this- it just stretches it out for everyone

Are you thinking you will be given a nice council house in the exact area you want, where you and DH can keep your current jobs and your DC can stay in the same school? No nasty bnb for who knows how long, who knows where, while you wait to be housed who knows where, and you lose the opportunity to get a private rental because of your history of refusing to leave? Dream on.

Sorry but this is absolute balls. Landlords know what the law is (and I've been one- this is not an anti landlord post). In OP's circumstances it would make sense for her to stay until the point at which she's not making herself intentionally homeless. Yes, that's inconvenient for the landlord- this is one of the costs of doing business. The law is as it is for a reason- to give tenants a few rights in a world that is very much stacked against them (tenants' rights in the UK are pretty meagre compared to equivalent countries in Europe). I'm quite shocked that anyone would argue for OP to make herself intentionally homeless- you must know what that would mean.

If you're not willing to deal with the law of L&T, don't be a landlord. There are plenty of other ways to invest your capital.

I don’t think anyone is saying she should make her self intentionally homeless, what a daft response. They are saying if she has the means and ability it is in her interests to find someplace else ro live. And it does appear she has the means and ability, just not in her preferred exact location.

im also astounded anyone can be so utterly ignorant to read a thread where a low income family had to move twice in 18 months due to their landlords selling up and are now struggling to house themselves where rhey wish due to lack of affordable rentals and crow it’s a good thing landlords are selling up.

It’s not a good thing for the op and it’s not a good thing for thousands of other families who can’t house themselves due to it.

and that’s the issue, when you make it hard and unprofitable for landlords rhey sell up. As they are doing, Reducing properties available for rent, evicting existing tenants, and leaving a lot of families homeless. There is not enough social housing, so they end up in hostels and b&bs.

we are going to see more and more of this. And it’s those who need to rent who will suffer.

"Places for the same amount of rent, or less, than we currently pay are more rural and would cost more fuel"

Which suggests your landlord has been letting you pay lower rents than she could've. You need to move to the more rural option or find a way to pay more, like most of the country are having to do.

Your situation is shit, the thing I would be most concerned about in your position is keeping your DS in his existing school as it sounds like he is thriving there.

If you wait for bailiff's and the council to emergency rehouse you, then surely his current school place will be the last thing the council will care about?

I personally think your DH is right, if you are low earners and getting all the benefits you can (I haven't read the whole thread, but please check you are getting all the financial assistance you are entitled to) then he will need to work more hours/get another job until you can go back to work yourself.

In your position I'd be asking the council about transportation for your DS to school (maybe the school can help with this) and just finding yourselves somewhere to live.
I can't imagine living in a B&B for months/years with 2 children, and I'd do as much as I could to avoid that.

Hope it works out for you all.

@smashinggrapes rentals have increased exponentially in the past 11 months on top of bills. There are other personal, pregnancy/health-related factors as to why we can’t simply pay more within the space of a few weeks. My point regarding rural locations is that I still feel we’re out-priced when you factor in the cost of fuel (minus one area which doesn’t have a school with asd facilities although I’ll find out more today).

DH wanted to be out of here asap and find a second job or do self-employed stuff after we’ve moved, which I feel is risky. We’re currently unlikely to be accepted anyway as they look at your income and we’d have to find a guarantor to secure a bond. Basically, I feel it’s outside our affordability to rent anywhere we’ve seen, but DH wants to do what you suggest and find a way to just “pay more” as he’s scared of the prospect of a court possession order and our ability to rent again if somewhere suitable does come up.

Two suitable places did come up but they stopped accepting applications after a day. I’ve been losing sleep already and I literally can’t afford to think too deeply into the LL’s circumstances until I weigh up all our options.

As others have said you can live elsewhere you jsut don't want to. I'm not sure why you think that you will get offered soemthing better by the housing authority. Chances are you will have even less choice and more disruption. So I think staying put is a bit shitty to be honest.

I can't beleive people have to explain the landlord actually owns the house not the tenants

Unfortunately it’s the way the system works. The council will not help house them until they get an eviction notice so until that time the only choice the OP has is to stay put and keep looking and applying for rentals and apply bid on council housing.

Renters are being priced out of the market, you can only get so much help financially from the council and it doesn’t put much of a dent in the current rental prices and it’s near impossible to even get a viewing right now as demand is astronomically high. Low income households are not attractive to LL’s when they can literally pick whoever they want out of 20 odd applications.

If OP isn’t able to find a private rental before the eviction process she will unfortunately be put in temp accommodation which isn’t ideal but as I said it’s the way the system works. If they leave now with no where to go the council will refuse to help them.

OP if you need help with the bond/ deposit for a new property would your current landlord help out with this? I assume you paid one for this property and it will be refunded when you leave? It’s in the landlord’s interest to lend it to you and you agree that the deposit scheme pays it to him.
You have said that rents have risen in 11 months. Are you approaching the end of the 12 months fixed term of your tenancy? If so your current landlord may try to increase your rent to the market level. Maybe when looking for other properties it would be better to compare them to the potential current market rent for your property, rather than your actual rent?
It’s a horrible situation for you and I hope you are able to find somewhere that meets your needs.

"DH wanted to be out of here asap and find a second job or do self-employed stuff after we’ve moved, which I feel is risky"

That sounds sensible to me tbh. Your landlord is not responsible for you choosing to have another child when your finances are so tight.

All the people saying “landlord” to make it feel like just an object and less emotive , still a person/family - going through a divorce but it’s ok to crap on them ?
I wonder all those saying stay, would apply the same principles to other “businesses” hire car….. I’ve only booked for 3 days but actually it’s not convenient for me to give it back as I can’t find a better car or cheaper rate so Ill just keep it for longer as you’re a business just suck it up ?!

Op, if the original plan was to sell with you in situ , what happens if you don’t leave and the sale proceeds then the new landlords immediately hikes the rate to current market levels … what will you do then ?

we are going to see more and more of this. And it’s those who need to rent who will suffer
This. Its not a battle of who has it worse or it is most unfair too.

The main concern is that it's a vicious cycle. The more the government and tenants make it difficult for landlords and more trouble than gain, the more will decide to sell. The less properties are available for rental, the higher the cost and the more likely tenants will either fail to pay the rent and/or try everything to get social housing.

It's not working but the government ar
is desperate to get as much tax as they can from landlords and make it as difficult for people to access social housing due to shortage so here we are.

@Kay286 The new owner isn’t a landlord, they want to move into the property themselves.

So the property is going to be unavailable for rent regardless. The OP’s family can stick it out until eviction if they wish, but they won’t be able to live there in the future.

@HamBone I’m sure there was a part she said originally it would be sold with them in situ no ? In which case they have a changed their minds to either live in it themselves or their intension is for new owners to re let at current prices. If op chooses to not to leave the sale could still proceed and new owners increase rent significantly- what does op do then ? The rural place may seem a good option then !

worst case they stay beyond section 21 , get a horrible council place that isn’t suitable. Council stock is even worse availability than private , poor location for the school and then cannot even look to find a suitable private rent as they’ve burnt their bridges. Also left owing the legal fees for eviction.
I cannot understand how anyone can think this is a good idea.

I mean what does the husband expect them to do if they cannot find somewhere. Sofa surfing with a child with additional needs will not be in their best interests at all.

I am also fully aware of what temp accommodation is like. Been there as a single parents, 3 children one who has additional needs.

Moving home will be stressful for the child. Having to move schools will be worse. Not all mainstream schools are good when dealing with additional needs and finding a special needs school is bloody hard.

I mean what does the husband expect them to do if they cannot find somewhere. Sofa surfing with a child with additional needs will not be in their best interests at all.

"I am also fully aware of what temp accommodation is like. Been there as a single parents, 3 children one who has additional needs.

Moving home will be stressful for the child. Having to move schools will be worse. Not all mainstream schools are good when dealing with additional needs and finding a special needs school is bloody hard."

The husband has suggested they get a new rental asap and he will take on additional work. It's the OP that doesn't want to. The alternative is a lot more stressful

It is slightly worrying how landlords reading some of these posts could now (sub consciously) be wary of taking on a family with a special needs child...