Am I stupidly poor? Or living in the real world?

[Chunkythighss]

Just off the back of another post…
people commenting that they will have to live off £1900 AFTER paying the mortgage and how this is going to be a struggle.

nearly £2000 a month extra.

This is more than I earn a month and pay rent, bills, etc… yet people are saying they’d struggle to live on this after bills?

Am I massively poor or is this normal? 🙈

There are so many variables that comparison makes no sense unless you know both lifestyles and family size etc

House ownership carries some costs of upkeep ( insurance, repairs and maintenance) which a renter doesn't face. Plus possibly, a higher band of CT; and the larger the home the higher the heating costs. Single childless person, or couple with children? Commuting distance, method and cost (for how many adults)?

@QWERTTY

Where did I say that ALL people who had higher degrees and worked 12 hour days earned £100K?

You're coming at this from the wrong angle. It's nothing to do with me being a 'snob' whatever that is in this context.

Some people who have excellent degrees and work long hours will never be high earners. They aren't in high-paying careers.

BUT

Most people who do earn £100K pa work very hard and usually more than 9-5.

Many couples will earn around £50K each = £100K and would not consider themselves super-rich especially in the part s of the UK with very high housing costs (£2K a month is normal for a 2-bed rental, even out of London.)

The ‘just downsize’ rhetoric is also a pretty naïve perspective.

If everyone with higher incomes started competing for smaller houses the prices of those would shoot up and make it harder for those currently buying them.

if they stop using so much childcare and work opposing shifts or use favours etc as suggested above then doesn’t that put those who work in childcare at risk?

if they stop buying all the frivolous non essentials that are being sneered at on this thread does that not put small businesses and their employees at risk?

not to mention the cost of downsizing- early exit fees for mortgages running to tens of thousands, solicitors fees, estate agents fees…

just making life smaller all of a sudden has a wide reaching impact. The economy needs people to be spending - for taxes, for employment, for productivity

also, on the thread this is about people weren’t saying £1900 is nothing, they were saying the mortgage the OP was proposing they take on was irresponsible in relation to their income. Absolutely no one was saying a disposable income of £1900 was poor - people were saying that the OPs income wasn’t enough to sustain IIRC c£500k of borrowing - those aren’t the same things

I know, I said that previously. I managed to save money when times were better so I had a safety net for times like this. I economise where I can to ensure we can do fun things like go on holiday without getting into debt. I would live very differently if I had the money, but I wouldn't put myself into a precarious situation like the hypothetical people we are talking about, it's not worth it to me. I am quite happy to wait to buy things until I have the money.

@WoeBeCome yes, £1700 as a full-time police officer. I haven't reached the top of my pay bracket yet so will go up a little every year.

That's also opted out of pension (I know, I know) as I simply cannot afford it.

Without the £200 top up I get from UC I would be struggling big time.

It's incredibly narrow minded to assume that only people with 100k job could possibly know what it's like to work hard, study hard and live in 'student poverty'.
You think 12 hour days are only done by people who do earn or working towards earning £100k?
Tried a 14 hour shift in a care home have you? Looking after other people's relatives for minimum wage so those other people are free to go and do their £100k a year job?

This is exactly my point the 'I work so hard, I sacrificed so much' - there's people out there who work just as hard, if not harder, who have done so for decades, who society relies on to function, who don't just sacrifice in the short term to reach an achievement, they don't have it to sacrifice in the first place and live in permanent poverty, and who's wages are topped up because they couldn't live and therefore be available for the jobs they do if they weren't - meaning the services aren't available (which we're starting to see the results of as there's shortages in many low paid areas).

Your hard work is very commendable, but you're not special, plenty work hard, sacrifice and live in permanent poverty and will never get anywhere near £100k a year.

@Badbudgeter, would you like to see my UC statement? I get £202 for 2 children only, my third was born after the cut off in 2017. I was still married then.

I knew that would be your stock response, ‘where did I say…’ but if you reread my comment I said it’s the implication.

You are suggesting that people don’t understand the hard work it takes to earn 100k, but they do, because many people are working just as hard yet not enjoying the luxuries that £100k will afford.

You might be naive to the fact, but your comments are very ill informed. It is you coming at this from the wrong angle I’m afraid. maybe you need to understand that people on £100k MAY not understand what it is to work incredibly hard and still live in poverty.

Hard work doesn’t necessarily equate to lots of money. Lots of money doesn’t necessarily equate to hard work.

I didn’t know that at all.

These threads always turn into a kicking of the 'squeezed, out of touch, middle'.
The focus should be on getting everyone to the stage where they have some disposable income not ripping it away from those that have a little of it.
I would be considered part of the squeezed middle, however, I grew up in poverty, think free school meals, clothing allowances, FIS, we lived in squalid private lets, council and housing association homes and our schools were mediocre at best. We could never afford a holiday and my mum (single parent) never had less than two jobs at any given point. We always had food - no convenience foods, nothing branded, no luxuries (peanut butter etc) and if it ran out there was none until the next weekly/ monthly shop. We lived with the threat of eviction and bailiffs, frequent utilities were shut off or we had pay meters electricity, tv, and when we had no money for them, we had none. We had no car and could not afford bus fare, so walked miles everywhere. If we had holes they were darned and if our shoes wore through it was tough luck until a new pair could be afforded. We had no access to credit,, a double edged sword. I was sixteen before we could afford to rent a phone from BT! My experience isn't unique, nor is it to be pitied. It is what it is.

Now we have a little disposable income more than some and less that others, it has come with a cost, luxuries, time with loved ones and friends. We earned every. single. penny. What really pisses me off is people spouting off about the about of touch squeezed middle and privilege. We have a decent sized house, but have that through living frugally and buying and selling houses strategically.
Maybe check your own privilege and get some perspective. The squeezed middle is made up of many who have clawed their way there, they do not deserve contempt just because their challenges look different to yours.

@Chunkythighss it's not rocket science that £1900 will cover some people's bills and not others. If it covers yours fine but it doesn't cover mine or some other people because some people don't just have a 'few bills'. People prioritize things that are important to them and £1900 or even 2k a month doesn't cover it. If it works for you happy days, it is not a race to the bottom.

The more you earn, the more you spend, is the basics of it.

Some people do lose touch with what counts as essential (gym is NOT essential - no, not if you even have a health condition).

I think when you get into a relatively comfortable way of life, you cant see the alternatives. You may argue that you need a car to get to work, but for many its still a privilege. Lots of people get by just fine on public transport. What you pay for is the convenience of using a car.

Its the difference of being able to afford an emergency dental bill and not. Its having access to credit/savings.

Having money gives you flexibility, and choice, even if it doesnt feel like it to you.

This exactly!

Unfortunately, dragging others to the bottom is all some people care about.

Some people do lose touch with what counts as essential (gym is NOT essential - no, not if you even have a health condition).

There is nothing like being ill informed.

There is nothing like thinking a gym membership is an essential outgoing.

Context is everything though. I was brought up in London but my Mum moved to Shropshire when I was on my late teens. She visits us in the south east and can't believe the prices of where we live, to be fair specifically the part of the south east we live in. Despite a 'good' income it just doesn't go as far, if we lived on Shropshire on our joint income we'd be pretty wealthy. Mum's neighbours can't believe the cat we drive as everyone on her street has a new car (not a joke), or the fact that we live in a small 3 bedroom house with a tiny yard out the back. Yye dentist is a good example, it is £91 for a check up, £120 for the hygienist. We are private so that our children can see a dentist for free, there are no NHS dentists or ones with places, I feel my DC do need to have their teeth checked just like I did.

Food/shopping in the small local supermarkets can charge different prices regionally and they absolutely do as when I visit Shropshire I notice the price difference in Tesco Local.

I am not sure people on a good income not spending money is a good idea. Surely, it is better for the wealth of the nation to increase.

The car not 'cat we drive'🙄

Gym is not essential. ...but I actually think our standard of living in the UK is appealingly low. Our wages are ridiculous. Twenty years ago I was job hunting. An admin job back then paid about £25k. An admin job today pays about £25k. I've been watching videos online of Americans being interviewed about their salaries. Even standard office jobs pay nearly $100k. Their homes are so much nicer and more spacious than ours. Laundry rooms and walk in closets are totally standard whereas in the UK, only really well off people have those things.
Life is generally shit now in the UK.

I'm guessing you'd ask people on all incomes the same question and provide the same level of judgement?

But living in Shropshire your capacity to earn those salaries is very much reduced. Shropshire is the biggest county in the country with the population spread out. There are many areas of deprivation. The infrastructure is poor in many places - limited broadband, public transport etc. It's all relative.

@Lastofyou it's not judgemental to say that childcare costs are something you need to take into account when deciding to have children.

It's no different to considering running costs with you choose a car, mortgage costs when you buy a house and commuting costs when you choose a job 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, I don't think I explained it well, I think we wouldn't be able to earn what we do in Shropshire, in fact the opportunities for my DH as architect aren't as plentiful especially at Director level so we definitely wouldn't be able to get close to that but when people see it on here as a lot then it may be if you are in Shropshire but it isn't in London. My Mum's neighbours are pretty much all retired but they were in professions and they still don't seem to understand the context of how far a good income in their mind goes.

Is it being 'overprivileged' to have got a good job, with long hours, often after years of study and student-poverty?

Of course it is. Millions of people will never be able to consider university because of the costs involved.

There are conditions for which being in a pool whether walking or swimming offers significant physical and mental advantages over walking, which is free. Swimming here is c£5 per session x 3 £15.00 per week= £45. Monthly Gym membership which gives full access to the pool is cheaper than this. This gym membership also likely to save the NHS money by reducing the likely need for physical and mental health services. Do you know that the NHS is at breaking point and we should all be doing more to be less of a burden to it. Shaming people for prioritising their physical and mental health is ridiculous even if they don't have a health condition. It's this kind of binary thinking that is the problem with this country.