Preferred pronoun labels at childrens event

[StopitSarah]

I took my primary age children to a science event this weekend. It’s run by university students. Almost all of them had their preferred pronouns on their name labels.

AIBU to feel that was unnecessary and to feel a bit uneasy? One of my children wanted to know why “the man is saying we should say he/him. Isn’t that obvious?”

I asked one of the students who said it was to show support to any trans helpers and was for the benefit of the (adult) students, not the children.

I’m SO BORED and irritated by the trans agenda being every-bloody-where.

But AIBU? I had a good chat with one of the students and he said that they’re all science students and understand that woman = biological female is too simplistic. My brain exploded.

Like all the empathy TRA show for women who don’t want or in fact can’t have men in there spaces for cultural or religious reasons?

The empathy of a TW screaming witch directly into a woman’s face?

the empathy of TW forcing their way into womens refuges?

it starts with pronouns and ends with the above. No thank you

MaryMcCarthy - Empathy because a man wants to be referred to as she? What a load of bollocks. Literally.

It really does effect people in insidious and awful ways. Pretending it doesn't is naive. My DD and her mates have been gaslit to call their friend 'Savannah' since Year 3. 'Savannah' grew 'her' hair and wore the cute checked school dress and the teachers went for it big time. So did Savannah's mum who splashed it all over FB. They are now Year 7 and Savannah now looks like a tall, lanky, long haired grungy boy in a skirt and is absolutely distressed that they are developing facial hair and their voice is changing. Savannah wants a boyfriend and didn't inform the boys in their sight that they are still in posession of a penis. So they got a boyfriend who immediately dumped them when furnished with the facts. My DD doesn't get why I am not feeling the sleepover invitations or unsupervised visits to Savannah's home. Loads of upset. A complete can of worms have been opened and it's causing lots of problems at the altar of inclusivity at all costs. Kids are the collateral damage here.

Mary McCarthy yes it does affect me. It affects me when I have to pretend not to notice a huge transwoman in a female only space, for a start. I'm old enough now to simply leave a situation I don't feel comfortable in, but fourteen year old me put up with my boundaries being constantly tested by men, and this feels like more of the same in a new, ugly dress. Except that women aren't even allowed to complain about men in our spaces now for fear of being shunned. And you know that.

What would you do if one of your kids or grandkids had these thoughts?

Would you try and talk them out if? Tell them it was bollocks?

So is it about single sex spaces or not, because you start by saying that it’s just about pronouns but then say some kids will fall under the trans umbrella?

So are you saying pronouns are fine but absolutely no to male people using single sex spaces?

And why in god's name would I show empathy to the person in my single sex space? They aren't showing empathy for me and the way it feels to no longer have single sex spaces to access in public areas anymore. It is pure entitlement.

I notice you haven't explained how it affects you. No-one has

Because if a man uses female pronouns, then that man will expect access to women's toilets, women's changing rooms, women's sports, women's hospital wards and women's prisons.

We are explaining this. You just don't want to hear it.

I'm saying have some empathy for these genuine feelings, for the genuine confusion and anguish that people go through. It's like many of you have never known anyone who has struggled.

That doesn't mean I want a free-for-all where women feel unsafe in women's spaces, no.

MaryMcCarthy - My view is that a man can dress as a woman if he wants, can have a female name if he wants, but he is still a man so calling him she and letting him have the same rights as a woman is ridiculous because he will never be a woman.

This has nothing to do with a lack of empathy for people with anguish and everything to do with activists who are trying to remove safeguards for women. Because we have been told to 'be kind' we no longer have female only prisons or female only rape crisis centres. Women can't compete in sport free from men. Girls are having single sex toilets in schools removed in favour of unisex. These are but a few examples.

This tiny minority of 'the most oppressed' is advocating for harming children. Putting them on social pathways which lead on to harmful medical pathways harming their perfect bodies.

Empathy would be getting people with dysphoria the evidenced based support they need. Just like we do with people with anorexia not changing the whole of society to the detriment of women and children to give people what they demand.

Every time a thread like this recurs I'm left thinking about all the fucked up kids that will result from the sort of attitudes shown by parents here

You should read the Cass report.

You'll then understand that socially transitioning a child is not a neutral act. It can lead a child down a path of serious and irreversible consequences.

While you're at it, read the accounts of detransitioners, many of whom have found that transitioning didn't solve the underlying issues they had and regret their decision. Many of them are left with long term physical affects from the medications or surgery they've embarked on.

Blindly affirming lies doesn't help any child's mental health. We don't apply this to any other medical issue - why are we applying it here?

If you've had problems with men in women's spaces then of course I empathise with you, but I never have. I don't know anyone who has. Nevertheless I'm not in denial and know it's a situation that needs more discussion and more boundaries. Women need to feel safe.

Maybe if the police in this country weren't in such dire straits and people had faith in them then we'd be better able to separate sex offenders from the rest of the population, because many posting here don't seem able to make that distinction.

They're lumping a lot of issues together. This isn't really connected to the idea of pronouns on name badges. Look on LinkedIn, look at innovative industries like science, engineering, academia, industries that lead the way, and you're going to come across pronouns. Young people are growing up with preferred pronouns. It's the reality so I don't see the value of fighting against it. You're going to lose and you'll just end up bitter and irrelevant.

I'm saying have some empathy for these genuine feelings, for the genuine confusion and anguish that people go through

Blind, unquestioning affirmation isn't empathy though. Empathy is getting them proper therapy.

Start a thread about it then. This one is about name badges.

To be absolutely honest, yes, I probably would try to talk them out of it.

Because this is basically what the conversation would be, in translation:

DD: Mum, I feel uncomfortable with my changing body and I think girls are less safe than boys in society. I want to be a boy. Please can I sterilise myself and make the rest of my life quite emotionally challenging, as well as needing a lifetime of avoidable medical interventions?

Me: Yes, darling, of course. I 100% affirm your decision.

For clarity, this is relating to my kids. I understand that there will be some who truly feel they're in the wrong body and suffer immense distress. I also know that this does not apply with any of my children.

This isn't really connected to the idea of pronouns on name badges

Of course it is connected. It's an ideology. By using pronouns we are being compelled to put gender before sex. We are being compelled to lie about what our eyes see.

This is deliberate.

If you don't see the connection read this

Pronouns are rohypnol

lol are you not overreacting a bit? How much of an ordeal is it, really, to say she instead of he? I'm getting used to it.

If you get it wrong initially and they complain then they're in the wrong. It's really not your problem unless you want to make it a problem.

If you've had problems with men in women's spaces then of course I empathise
Do you? You seem to be perfectly happy with the concept as you haven't personally encountered any issues.
You have no right to tell others they should be equally fine, whether they've had actual issues or not.
The mere concept of men freely consorting in women's spaces is an issue.

I'm telling people to be fine with men in women's spaces?

I'd love you to point out where I said that.

You don't think that compelled speech with an end game of gender affirming surgeries are 'much of an issue'? I see.

You don't think men in women's single sex spaces are much of an issue either. Interesting but my rights are not yours to give away.

NO thank you to any of this. You do not have my consent nor that of many women to an ideology that harms women, children and homosexuals.

That you chose not to see it is your business.

lol are you not overreacting a bit? How much of an ordeal is it, really, to say she instead of he? I'm getting used to it.

I'm not over reacting at all. Read the article posted above, which outlines clearly what changing pronouns does in a wider sense.

Saying she instead of he gives credence to all of the following, none of which I support...

That gender takes precedence over sex
That people can be born in the 'wrong body'
That sex can be meaningfully changed
That there are 'right' and 'wrong' ways to be male or female.

Yes. It is bollocks.

My DD already knew before she started school that humans can’t change sex. Yet there are people here who seem to think they can.

We cart people off who think they’re Jesus but if a man pretends he’s a woman we fawn.

If you've had problems with men in women's spaces then of course I empathise with you, but I never have. I don't know anyone who has.

Aren't you clever! Implying that 'no one I know thinks like you, mad lady.'

FYI I know of two women/girls murdered in public toilets. One a friend of a friend; one at a shopping centre in my home town. It's not an irrational fear to want single sex spaces. And yes, yes, I know that men will access them anyway if they have nefarious intentions, but what we have lost is the right to challenge men in our spaces, and that is not a small thing. And yes, how gracious of you to admit that women do need to feel safe.

And no, you can't always tell a sex offender at first glance. That's why we don't put a man in a women's prison cell or hospital ward. Obviously. They don't wear little badges. That wouldn't work, would it?

As for children growing up with preferred pronouns, I don't think so. I am around younger kids and I suspect this is a bit of a blip, that it would fall out of fashion and that something new will come along.

As for calling me bitter and irrelevant, whatever. At least I'm coherent and don't need to resort to ageist insults as I have no argument.

There are very few people saying they won't allow people to refer to someone as a female name even if they are male if that's what they prefer. What most object to is people saying that transwomen as women and therefore entitled to the same rights as women. That is not OK IMO.