AIBU?
Tenant has abandoned property
AccidentalLandlord1 · 18/03/2023 21:28
Hi everyone. My tenant of 5 years has abandoned my property today. She text me to say that due to a change in circumstances, she has left the property and has posted the keys through the door and the stuff she has left behind can either be thrown away or kept. I went to check and she has left her all her furniture such as beds, wardrobes, etc. She had always paid her rent on time so admittedly I'd become a bit laid back with checking but I checked today and she has not paid rent for the last 2 months and she missed a payment in October last year too. She also had the cheek to give me her bank details to give her deposit back...! Where do I stand with getting missed rent back from this tenant? I have no idea where she has gone and she seems to of now blocked my number. I am an accidental landlord as you can tell from my username and also rather stupidly did not protect her deposit. Does this mean I have to give it back?! Even if she owes rent. Help desperately needed...
Am I being unreasonable?
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ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 13:53
dogpoobin · 19/03/2023 13:37
And OP can pop her name on the "bad landlords" list whilst she's at it. For breaking several legal requirements including not protecting her tenant's deposit and failing to carry out gas safety checks as required.
ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 13:33
Are there any landlord lists for bad tenants? I’d add her name to it if you can.
Which one do you think is in shortest supply ? Tenants or properties to rent.
Bide your time op and wait to see what happens. Get the property ready to rent again.Change the locks. Keep the furniture to see if the next tenant could use it. If not stick it on market place and someone will take it away for you. Get your safety certificates sorted and advertise the property asap. Make sure you charge the going rate too. Do not sell the property, it will
continue to increase in value and is one of the best investments you can make.
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/03/2023 13:53
ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 13:31
It would be foolish of the op to take the tenant to court for unpaid rent I agree. But if she comes after the deposit I would threaten it. The chances of a custodial sentence would be ridiculously slim I imagine. I’d take the gamble in her situation. Write a letter asking for removal of all items and post it to the only address you have for her . Change the locks . Clear and repaint and get house ready for new tenants. Get safety certificates and protect the next deposit and forget about her.
The OP would lose the deposit fight. No questions. Possibly lose more than the original deposit.
She’d also at least get fined for the gas cert. possibly more.
Why more outrage for a tenant cutting the corner of notice than a landlord ignoring statutory and legal obligations for years?
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/03/2023 13:55
ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 13:53
Which one do you think is in shortest supply ? Tenants or properties to rent.
Bide your time op and wait to see what happens. Get the property ready to rent again.Change the locks. Keep the furniture to see if the next tenant could use it. If not stick it on market place and someone will take it away for you. Get your safety certificates sorted and advertise the property asap. Make sure you charge the going rate too. Do not sell the property, it will
continue to increase in value and is one of the best investments you can make.
dogpoobin · 19/03/2023 13:37
And OP can pop her name on the "bad landlords" list whilst she's at it. For breaking several legal requirements including not protecting her tenant's deposit and failing to carry out gas safety checks as required.
ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 13:33
Are there any landlord lists for bad tenants? I’d add her name to it if you can.
Ah
so because there is a shortage of places to rent it’s ok for the Op to be a shit landlord.
The tenant is gone. They obviously have somewhere to go.
They have nothing to lose and the Op has a shitload to lose if they don’t realise their best action is to quietly pay back the deposit, realise they’ve taken corner cutting too far and learn their lesson.
Sugarplumfairy65 · 19/03/2023 13:59
freyamay74 · 19/03/2023 09:11
Give the deposit back. Start proceedings against her for the rent she owes and for leaving stuff in the property
And explain to the court that the deposit wasn't protected and no gas safety. checks had been done for 5 years? The landlord is risking an unlimited fine by the court and 6 months jail time. She would be wise to just pay the deposit back and pray that the tenant doesnt report her.
Sugarplumfairy65 · 19/03/2023 14:04
ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 13:10
This. You can take her to court for breaking her tenancy agreement. She left the property in a state and didn’t give you notice m. She’s having a laugh.
Ihatethenewlook · 18/03/2023 21:57
Reply with I’ll return your deposit after you’ve paid me the 3 months missing rent, the 1 months unpaid notice, and the x amount of removals and cleaning costs of your abandoned items.
AccidentalLandlord1 · 18/03/2023 21:56
She mentioned in her message along with providing her bank details that I can just transfer the deposit directly back to her as she is aware it isn't protected. I have no idea how to find out where she is now. She is from Scotland originally so may have even gone back up there. Nightmare
No she can't. She would end up with a criminal record, and unlimited fine and up to 6 months in jail. The tenant didn't have to actually pay rent. A landlord cannot charge rent for a property that has no gas safety check
LakieLady · 19/03/2023 14:04
Intergalacticcatharsis · 19/03/2023 08:54
These types of posts make me think there should be a formal online register of landlords. ID number, tax reference, gas and electrical certificates, yearly confirmation by landlord that property is in good state of repair etc.
I think that's an excellent idea.
I've come across so many LLs who don't abide by the rules, sometimes in ways that are positively dangerous, that I think there's a real need for greater regulation.
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/03/2023 14:08
ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 14:02
She doesn’t sound like a shit landlord. It’s true she sounds a little naive and just left the tenant alone to live in peace tbh. I’m sure she will change moving forward.
Absolute bollocks.
A LL that doesn’t do the legal basics is a short landlord.
There is no excuse for no gas safety checks for years. None.
Those are basics of being a landlord. The likes of the Op is why those things had to be made legal requirements.
Its also an absolute fucking cheek to whinge “I’ve ignored all my obligations and now the tenant has ignored theirs and that’s not fair”.
Maverickess · 19/03/2023 14:16
ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 14:02
She doesn’t sound like a shit landlord. It’s true she sounds a little naive and just left the tenant alone to live in peace tbh. I’m sure she will change moving forward.
Not noticing 3 months unpaid rent might be considered a 'little naïve' - not protecting the deposit and no safety checks for 5 years? And then trying to excuse that because they're an 'accidental landlord'?
Shit Landlord territory.
Maybe the tenant is an 'accidental tenant' and therefore didn't know all her legal obligations wrt paying rent on time and giving notice/removing your stuff when you leave?
ropeycorn · 19/03/2023 20:25
Postapocalypticcowgirl · 19/03/2023 11:50
For those saying that the tenant won't pursue this as they have no money, there are companies like this one that will help people chase deposits on a no-win, no-fee basis: tenantangels.co.uk/
If the situation went to court, it's very likely the lack of gas safety certificates would come out and possibly other things the landlord has neglected to do.
The OP needs to check her situation very carefully, as she's not just facing fines, but a potential prison sentence too.
I do agree it might be a good idea to do a welfare check and find out if she is okay, and it's definitely her bank account.
Interesting if the tenant had yearly contracts then the landlord maybe liable for a multi-breach payout. i.e. the tenancy hadn't had a protection scheme deposit for one year then the breach may span 5 years then the payout could be 5 times the 3-month rent limit. Pay the deposit back and quick and pray she hadn't read this thread.
tenantangels.co.uk/multi-breach-claim/
ropeycorn · 19/03/2023 20:26
ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 13:53
Which one do you think is in shortest supply ? Tenants or properties to rent.
Bide your time op and wait to see what happens. Get the property ready to rent again.Change the locks. Keep the furniture to see if the next tenant could use it. If not stick it on market place and someone will take it away for you. Get your safety certificates sorted and advertise the property asap. Make sure you charge the going rate too. Do not sell the property, it will
continue to increase in value and is one of the best investments you can make.
dogpoobin · 19/03/2023 13:37
And OP can pop her name on the "bad landlords" list whilst she's at it. For breaking several legal requirements including not protecting her tenant's deposit and failing to carry out gas safety checks as required.
ConsuelaHammock · 19/03/2023 13:33
Are there any landlord lists for bad tenants? I’d add her name to it if you can.
The landlord glee there for all to see.
monsteramunch · 19/03/2023 21:49
@ConsuelaHammock
It would be foolish of the op to take the tenant to court for unpaid rent I agree. But if she comes after the deposit I would threaten it. The chances of a custodial sentence would be ridiculously slim I imagine. I’d take the gamble in her situation.
Custodial sentence ridiculously slim, yes.
Big fine and a criminal record? Not so slim at all.
When it comes to risk and reward, taking the tenant to court in OP's situation would be entirely foolish.
ropeycorn · 19/03/2023 21:57
Thanks OP for helping the tenant understand their rights and options open to them. It would appear that not having a deposit 'protected' could be more valuable than having it so, see multiple breaches above. So don't insist on it but keep good records just in case.
IncessantNameChanger · 19/03/2023 22:40
No dps is very unusual to not know but there's no excuse for years of missed gas certs. OP I'd sell up. This isn't for you. You could get into deep shit missing the most basic of gas certs. Pay the deposit back ASAP and see your current loses as a lesson for not following the law. Do you have the deposit? Do you pay tax? Your on very dangerous ground of your own doing. Tax evasion could mean prison if your doing the legal minium what else are you not doing?
Scrumbleton · 19/03/2023 22:49
Nollocks to giving back the deposit! Learn from the experience and next time protect the deposit though. I'd just hold fire and see if she gets in touch, if she does explain the deposit is being retained in lieu of the missed rent. She what happens after that. Can't see anyone taking you to court when they've missed 3 months rent
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/03/2023 23:04
Scrumbleton · 19/03/2023 22:49
Nollocks to giving back the deposit! Learn from the experience and next time protect the deposit though. I'd just hold fire and see if she gets in touch, if she does explain the deposit is being retained in lieu of the missed rent. She what happens after that. Can't see anyone taking you to court when they've missed 3 months rent
And then what will the OP do when the tenant - who has already made clear they know the deposit wasn’t protected - reports the lack of gas safety certs over the years?
Sugarplumfairy65 · 19/03/2023 23:36
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/03/2023 23:04
And then what will the OP do when the tenant - who has already made clear they know the deposit wasn’t protected - reports the lack of gas safety certs over the years?
Scrumbleton · 19/03/2023 22:49
Nollocks to giving back the deposit! Learn from the experience and next time protect the deposit though. I'd just hold fire and see if she gets in touch, if she does explain the deposit is being retained in lieu of the missed rent. She what happens after that. Can't see anyone taking you to court when they've missed 3 months rent
Hopefully, the fines will be so large that the op has to sell the house from her prison cell to pay them.
Thesharkradar · 20/03/2023 00:32
Sugarplumfairy65 · 19/03/2023 23:36
Hopefully, the fines will be so large that the op has to sell the house from her prison cell to pay them.
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 19/03/2023 23:04
And then what will the OP do when the tenant - who has already made clear they know the deposit wasn’t protected - reports the lack of gas safety certs over the years?
Scrumbleton · 19/03/2023 22:49
Nollocks to giving back the deposit! Learn from the experience and next time protect the deposit though. I'd just hold fire and see if she gets in touch, if she does explain the deposit is being retained in lieu of the missed rent. She what happens after that. Can't see anyone taking you to court when they've missed 3 months rent
a prison cell??
surely she should be living in a carboard box and paying a grand a week rent for it☝
seriously though....you really DID mean amateur when you said accidental, didn't you@AccidentalLandlord1
AlmostSummer21 · 20/03/2023 07:04
LakieLady · 19/03/2023 07:51
Inheriting a property with a tenant in situ is the only way someone can become a LL "accidentally" imo. Even then, they have a choice about whether to carry on being a LL or to sell the tenanted property as an investment property.
In your situation, @AlmostSummer21 , renting out your UK property will be a conscious choice, there's no accident or lack of intention involved.
If there was such a thing as an investment vehicle that would give you the same income, and allow your capital to grow in line with UK property prices, so you could buy a similar property when you return to the UK, would you bother with the hassle of renting it out?
AlmostSummer21 · 18/03/2023 23:00
Of course there are accidental
lsndlords. A poster before you explained how her sister died & thus her mother became an accidental landlord.
it's not all about money!
I might go to another country where my mum lives to look after her, basically until she dies. But England is my home, this house is my home! I'd be coming back to my home!
so I can rent it out - providing a nice home for tenants, and having the property lived in.
OR
I can leave it standing empty while people are homeless.
So I guess it's not 'accidental' but it's not like I'm doing it because I want to own rental properties.
maybe 'unintentional' is a better phrase?!
Kaibashira · 18/03/2023 22:15
Give her the deposit back.
Her not fulfilling her obligations as a tenant (= paying rent, giving notice) doesn't cancel out you not fulfilling your obligations as a landlord (= e.g. putting the deposit in a registered scheme).
You can pursue her for unpaid rent etc. but that is entirely separate to the deposit issue.
No-one is an "accidental landlord", they just choose not to sell because they think that they can get more money at a later date. Any property will sell if it is cheap enough, and if there are e.g. structural or other problems so horrendous that it won't sell, you probably shouldn't be letting it out either.
I don't mean to sound harsh but being a landlord comes with strict regulatory obligations and if you can't or won't fulfil them then you need to take the financial hit, whatever it is, and sell up OR stop thinking of yourself as "accidental" and step up.
@LakieLady There was no intention to rent it out when I bought it, I haven't set out to buy a property to rent out.
it's too risky to sell & assume any investment vehicle would keep pace and if I go to be with/look after my Mum overseas, I wouldn't get a mortgage on my return. I'll be too old and on a lot less money than I am now (and I'm not on a lot now). I live in an expensive part of the country & my family/friends are here. I don't want to move to another area at over 60. My place here is tiny anyway, so it's not possible to downsize either.
trust me, I would far rather NOT not rent it out, but a) I can't afford not to (I have to live over there and my mum lives in a retirement village so I can only stay with her for a short while, so I need rent, bills, food etc there which will be hard enough. I can't afford rent, council tax etc here as well. B) it leaves a property sitting empty which seems criminal with a housing shortage.
I don't see any way around it, with life as it is. I had NO intention of being single at almost 60, or in this financial (crap) position, but 'life happens' and this is where I'm at.
AlmostSummer21 · 20/03/2023 09:02
ropeycorn · 19/03/2023 08:53
The point being is the industrialist creates wealth through innovation and the use of capital to create more using the worker to achieve that end. The landlord just sweats an existing 'dead' i.e already created asset to extract rent from that worker who requires a roof over their head as a basic necessity. It's a great tragedy that house prices and the rise of the BTL landlord has diverted so much energy and capital away from productive investment in this country and participated in creating such horrendous inequality amongst the younger generation with access to housing. I'm afraid landlords will just have to suck up the fact that society particularly the younger generation doesn't like them and never will I'm sure Landlordzone or Property Tribes can help them with that !
Redebs · 19/03/2023 08:26
@ropeycorn Marx said that's what capitalists think of landlords. Sounds like the hate comes from them having an actual commodity (property) to profit from, rather than just taking a direct cut of the workers' labour.
@Redebs they might not like 'landlords' but I'm sure they like having a roof over their heads. People cheered when the new rules came in for LL's, but despite being warned it would, it's only made it harder for people to find a house to rent. Until we have surplus social housing, we need private landlords.
and don't forget, there are amazing landlords as well as shitty ones.
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